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Just curious to see responses. Which is better in terms of schools, for families, location, cost of living, etc
Schools? Both for public and private better areas of New Jersey beat the pants off Staten Island.
Was born and raised on SI with plenty of family and friends still living there, and every adult with kids (or planning to have) knows the deal. You can stay on SI and have (relatively) cheaper housing costs, but you'll likely have to send your kids to private school for K-12 or at least high school. Given the heavy Italian and Irish population parochial schools are usually the first choice.
Cost of living? It is all relative.
You can find a nice house on SI for far less than many areas of NJ and still have an easier commute into the City (Manhattan), and pay less in *property taxes* than NJ. But the flip side to this is that NYC imposes a resident income tax *ON TOP OF* New York State's. New Jersey you only pay state and then local property taxes.
Location? Depends upon what you mean and what you are seeking to do.
If one or both adults in the house have to work in Manhattan each day, then parts of SI make for an easier commute than NJ. And again possibly cheaper housing costs than say anything in NJ that is one hour or less commute into Manhattan.
As for the balance of quality of life issues; coming from someone who remembers SI back in the 1970's and 1980's, it plain sucks now.
The Rock is too congested, crowded, and is rapidly becoming urban like much of Brooklyn or Queens.
When I was coming up kids could still ride their bikes basically every where, traffic was nothing like it is now. It can take two hours (or more) to get from Tottenville or New Drop along Hylan Blvd to the VNB and onto Manhattan.
Large parts of SI are being over developed and single family homes are torn down and replaced with multi-family town houses. That and or developers are trying to get their hands on what open space/land that is left to build *MORE* townhouses.
These are townhouses with often no front or back yard (if they do it is a few feet square), little to no parking so homeowners park on the street. To "reserve" that spot they place cones, garbage cans or whatever to save *THEIR* spot. You value your live and or vehicle cheaply if you move those things and park in that spot.
Even when these town homes have some grass/land and or new arrivals buy a home with front, back or side yards, they often pave over ever single bit of land with concrete. First to provide more parking, but also to do away with having to care for a lawn. Go figure.
^ They are overdeveloping parts of NJ too. These old Northeastern states, especially areas in large metros, have been built up for decades. I don't understand why they feel the need to cram more people in any available space, choosing to build multi-family homes or apartments. It's frustrating because the whole area has enough people and we could use some transit upgrades - roads to bridges to trains more than anything else.
i commute through SI daily and thanks to google maps, i have seen a lot of staten island. there are really nice areas there and I enjoy my trips through the borough. but i think for the wife and kiddies its always going to be beneath a nice nj suburb. schools and other things branch out beyond your home and immediate area.
but depending on the person, it could work for them. if you grew up in nj, you arent going to want to move to SI. but if you grew up in brooklyn, SI may be a step up for you and you could be satisfied.
Schools and parks wise Holmdel is superior, no question about it, and the suburbs that were commutable like Westfield were simply out of our price range as we wanted a single family home that wasn't a fixer upper. Our issue was the commute, I find it is a lot easier to drive out on the weekends to Holmdel Park than commute from Holmdel and not being able to see my kids before they go to sleep. I've lived in NJ also, and to me the commute is the killer, as jaymoney pointed out, if I worked in Middletown we'd be neighbors because I would be living there or Holmdel.
My friend has a gorgeous house on a quiet-end dead street near the water on Staten Island. There is a wooded area across the street that is a park and will stay that way. I've been driving through SI and my gps takes me through some nice, almost small-town looking neighborhoods as I wind my way through to avoid the backups on 278.
The problem with Staten Island is the Island part. To go anywhere else involves a bridge and a toll.
Yes, that is an issue, but you do get the EZ Pass discount, and if go through the NJ bridges with 3 people or more you get a big discount there also. We have found most things we want to do are available in SI, and there is a bus to Bay Ridge if you need to avoid the toll. I've found we really don't need to leave the Island except to visit friends.
Also I can commute by ferry and bus and pay only $5 per day- I commuted from NJ years ago and it cost me double that, and I'm sure the prices have gone up a lot since. So for me personally, it is a savings.
There are definitely nice areas of SI but to me when you're there it feels like you really are stuck on an island. Any time you leave other than the ferry you pay to either get out or come back in. There's one mall and it's just okay (so many NYers shop here for tax purposes also because we have better malls at least than most of NYC). It has some great food and nice neighborhoods but IMO it's way too congested. Narrow streets, too many one ways, not enough left turn only lanes so if someone's trying to make a left in front of you you're all stuck until the next light cycle in many parts. Infrastructure is outdated in the sense that most of the island was built up before the Verrazano so it was never meant to hold so many people and cars. It was never meant to have MTA buses trying to get down narrow streets with street parking and making it around tight turns. It can just FEEL very crowded especially when you're driving around.
Overall SI is okay. I don't hate it and it does definitely have some really nice areas and really good restaurants, some nice parks, but IMO that's about it. I think negatives outweigh the positives honestly. Living there would drive me crazy after a while for the reasons I mentioned.
Long Island is also, well, an island, which causes similar congestion and general "you're just not part of the mainland" issues more so than a congested state like NJ that's at least not an island.
I went to college on SI/lived there btw so I'm quite familiar.
Pretty much agree with everything you state. My doctor is on the other side of the Island and it can take me 40 minutes to go 5 miles if I don't leave at the right time. I find many towns in Jersey have similar traffic issues, (have you ever driven on Rte 1 on a Saturday afternoon?) and Long Island is just awful, my cousins are there and I dread the annual visits, as I'm sure they dread visiting us.
I think the reasons you state is why many people prefer New Jersey and two of my neighbors just moved out there and I understand why. To me it is simply a commuting issue, I wanted to spend more time with my kids and the commute to downtown NYC from NJ is just horrific (Jersey City the exception but that wasn't an option for us for other reasons).
I took location to mean commute, maybe I read too much into it, but if you work in NYC and are looking for a place to live, I would think that is an important consideration.
You can find a nice house on SI for far less than many areas of NJ and still have an easier commute into the City (Manhattan), and pay less in *property taxes* than NJ. But the flip side to this is that NYC imposes a resident income tax *ON TOP OF* New York State's. New Jersey you only pay state and then local property taxes.
Good point, but unless you are in the upper brackets the property tax differential more than covers this. Also your commuting costs are much less. Agree with the rest of your post, although my sons public school is on a par with some of the top Jersey schools as far as test scores (as far as amenities though forget it, the school doesn't even have a gym!)
^ They are overdeveloping parts of NJ too. These old Northeastern states, especially areas in large metros, have been built up for decades. I don't understand why they feel the need to cram more people in any available space, choosing to build multi-family homes or apartments. It's frustrating because the whole area has enough people and we could use some transit upgrades - roads to bridges to trains more than anything else.
Agree totally, I would have no problem with the extra development if they kept up the infrastructure. But they actually have cut one bus line by my house the last couple of years and they put up stores with no place to park so the stores end up closing soon afterward.
Good point, but unless you are in the upper brackets the property tax differential more than covers this. Also your commuting costs are much less. Agree with the rest of your post, although my sons public school is on a par with some of the top Jersey schools as far as test scores (as far as amenities though forget it, the school doesn't even have a gym!)
Be careful- property tax differential is overblown. It's not like you're not paying property taxes in NYC on a house. Also- my car insurance went down 40% when I moved....water bill down big....Keep in mind if you have more than 1 kid you'll be paying two private school tuition bills- anywhere from 3.5-8K a year each....
Overall my taxes/monthly nut went down considerably when I moved out of NYC.
While NJ commute might cost a big more it's 100 times more reliable than commute from SI. Watching train take off b/c ferry was 5 min late on your trip home, the express bus passing you by or not even coming. The next bus disappearing from the official app, etc...Commute isn't much longer too depending on where you live. I lived mid-island took anywhere from 90-150 min to get to midtown job. If you live in Holmdel or near an Academy bus stop your commute will be 90 min or less, much more reliable, and much less stressful.
I'll leave the quality of life out of the discussion for now- other than to say Holmdel public schools or any highly rated Monmouth County schooling blows SI schools out of the water- public or highly rated Catholic schools on the island, and yesI know there are exceptions to every rule.
Pretty much agree with everything you state. My doctor is on the other side of the Island and it can take me 40 minutes to go 5 miles if I don't leave at the right time. I find many towns in Jersey have similar traffic issues, (have you ever driven on Rte 1 on a Saturday afternoon?) and Long Island is just awful, my cousins are there and I dread the annual visits, as I'm sure they dread visiting us.
I think the reasons you state is why many people prefer New Jersey and two of my neighbors just moved out there and I understand why. To me it is simply a commuting issue, I wanted to spend more time with my kids and the commute to downtown NYC from NJ is just horrific (Jersey City the exception but that wasn't an option for us for other reasons).
Well, it depends where you're going downtown and where you live in NJ. I had an internship by the WTC and took the 15 minute train ride from where I live to Newark then the PATH to WTC. The walk to the office was 5 minutes. My commute was about an hour. Not bad at all.
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