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i dont see safety mentioned in the article he posted as a reason for the reduction in people becoming teachers. did you look at the article?
im sure it is an issue for some people but i think that is limited, you are making it like people in a large % of schools in NJ feel unsafe and i dont believe that is the case.
There are a whole lot of schools where kids fight every day, bring weapons, destroy classrooms, and have even seriously injured teachers. This stuff has all happened in my district and in my school.
BTW, I work in an elementary school.
Why don’t you hear about 99% of this stuff? Because the school administrations have become masters at burying stuff like this.
As awful as all that is, what now makes the job absolutely unbearable is the unbelievably large number of people in positions of unchecked power who blame teachers for everything, threaten them in public, call teachers names, and hand out horrible evaluations to show how “effective“ they are as administrators. While there are systems in place on paper to supposedly ensure fair and consistent evaluation processes, in reality, principals and supervisors ignore the system in many districts and do not get questioned.
- You’ll respond to a bad evaluation? It will be completely ignored, no matter the merits. (Early in my career when I received a bad evaluation, I offered a response to a poor evaluation, and an assistant superintendent told me that even though the response was excellent, he would still listen to the principal instead of me.)
- Oh, you have tenure? For all intents and purposes, Christie destroyed tenure.
- You have an association/union? They won’t help you, but they will collect a whole lot of money from you and send you spam/junk mail for the rest of your life.
- Your district violated the contract and/or the law? A whole lot of arbitrators and judges won’t care. They’re cozy with the school administrators. (I was actually told this by two attorneys I’m talking to regarding legal issues I’m having with my employer.)
Can you see why I’m ready to leave?
The one thing I personally can’t complain about is my salary. Most people would consider it decent. It did take me a while to get there, however.
But it’s not worth it. I’ll gladly take a pay cut for a job with a semblance of sanity, in education or otherwise.
So easy that I, myself, after 23 1/2 years in the biz, am seriously considering getting out. And it has nothing to do with Covid-19 or online learning. The misery has been in place for a long time, especially in many Title I districts. Kids (and sometimes parents) coming in tearing up classrooms, cursing, hitting teachers, but you can’t write them up, you can’t keep them for detention, you can’t keep them for any part of lunch, you can’t call parents without permission for anything “negative”, you can’t touch the kids even when they’re in danger even though it will be your fault if something happens to the child, bathroom breaks and time working during lunch, before, and after school are questioned and factored into evaluations, do-nothing associations, outrageous nepotism, laws ignored without consequence, and on and on...
And before you start that public sector workers have more protection than private sector workers nonsense, my brother works for a Fortune 500 company in a relatively low-level position, and he is afforded far more respect and job protections than me.
Now that I got that off my chest, I’m gonna make some popcorn...
I might take that over sitting in a cubicle holding some guy's hand while he cries and tells me that his wife is dying of brain cancer, he's probably going to lose his job because he's taken too much time off, he's broke and foreclosing on his house, and has just reached the lifetime max on his health insurance.
That sent my efficiency rating down the hopper, and I didn't get a raise that year. Tough. He was a nice guy and needed someone to talk to him. I just happened to be that lucky person. I hope that he remembers me, but it's OK if he doesn't.
everyone should feel safe everywhere but someone not feeling safe walking through newark at night doesnt impact people walking through holmdel at night. you have every right to complain about your situation but the other guy seemed to be implying that teachers not being able to teach due to fear of violence was a huge issue basically everywhere.
everyone should feel safe everywhere but someone not feeling safe walking through newark at night doesnt impact people walking through holmdel at night. you have every right to complain about your situation but the other guy seemed to be implying that teachers not being able to teach due to fear of violence was a huge issue basically everywhere.
And that’s another secret reason why less affluent districts have the problems they do. As long as the problems stay contained in those areas, most people outside of them don’t give a $*** if the people there destroy each other. That’s the sad reality, although no one will ever admit it.
BTW, Cap’n, I completed my student teaching in a demographically middle-class suburban high school. There were fights every day, tires slashed on cars, and swastikas painted on walls on a regular basis. And that was 25 years ago. I didn’t feel safe there either.
The ‘burbs aren’t completely immune to, as our Governor would say, the “knuckleheads”.
I have a lot of friends and neighbors that are teachers. They have been working in the same school districts for over 15-20 years. They graduated from college, got hired into bad, inner-city school districts, and here we are 15 years later and they are still working in those same bad districts. Do teachers ever really have any realistic opportunity to apply and transfer to another school in a better district? I have just never heard of that happening.
I have a lot of friends and neighbors that are teachers. They have been working in the same school districts for over 15-20 years. They graduated from college, got hired into bad, inner-city school districts, and here we are 15 years later and they are still working in those same bad districts. Do teachers ever really have any realistic opportunity to apply and transfer to another school in a better district? I have just never heard of that happening.
It’s very rare. That’s because there’s been a surplus of teachers in the state for around 45 years or so. But maybe that will finally change. In addition:
- Urban districts tend to pay teachers well in NJ (but, as I said in my previous post, it ain’t worth it to me).
- Nobody is willing to pay veteran teachers veteran teacher salaries. If you’re more than 10 years in or have a Master’s +30, you’re too expensive.
- Younger teachers aren’t only prettier and cheaper, they’re easier to indoctrinate before the wake-up happens sometime in the mid- to late- thirties. (Some never wake up, unfortunately.)
And that’s another secret reason why less affluent districts have the problems they do. As long as the problems stay contained in those areas, most people outside of them don’t give a $*** if the people there destroy each other. That’s the sad reality, although no one will ever admit it.
well, everyone's priority is going to be their own school district. i dont worry about what happens in urban districts and i dont worry about what happens in suburban districts outside of my own either (that isnt to say that i dont want them to be awesome, just that it is the responsibility of those in the district to worry about that as a priority).
Hands down the biggest myth in public school education.
I am sorry you were triggered by the word tenure. Nowhere did I complain or indicate my opinion about tenure in my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee
My wife has been in public education for the last 14 years and has seen tenured teachers let go for a variety of reasons.
Tenured teachers can be let go for inefficiency, incapacity, unbecoming conduct, or other just cause. Recent stats show that only a little more than 1% of teachers are rated ineffective in one year and it takes 2 years of being rated ineffective to start the process to fire a tenured teacher for poor performance. Tenure will not protect you from criminal behavior. Reductions in staff based on smaller student counts are strictly by seniority not by evaluation. It is almost impossible to remove a tenured teacher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee
The idea that you can bust your butt for three years until you have tenure and then literally do nothing for the next 30-40 years is pure fantasy.
Since 2012 it takes 4 years to attain tenure and I agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp_Yankee
Not to mention the fact that positions open up for all kinds of other reasons. Teachers leave for positions in other districts or other professions entirely, they move because a spouse had a job change, female teachers will sometimes have children and choose not to go back. Also, its not as if there are "classes of teachers" that all started together and that will all retire at the same time before anyone else can get a job. In my wife's department right now there are teachers nearing retirement, brand new teachers right out of college, and teachers like herself at the midpoint of their careers.
These are meaningless examples that are true for all jobs. The main difference is that as a tenured teacher in NJ, it is almost impossible to lose your job, unless you choose to leave. This reduces the turnover of teaching positions.
I am sorry you were triggered by the word tenure. Nowhere did I complain or indicate my opinion about tenure in my post.
Tenured teachers can be let go for inefficiency, incapacity, unbecoming conduct, or other just cause. Recent stats show that only a little more than 1% of teachers are rated ineffective in one year and it takes 2 years of being rated ineffective to start the process to fire a tenured teacher for poor performance. Tenure will not protect you from criminal behavior. Reductions in staff based on smaller student counts are strictly by seniority not by evaluation. It is almost impossible to remove a tenured teacher.
Since 2012 it takes 4 years to attain tenure and I agree with you.
These are meaningless examples that are true for all jobs. The main difference is that as a tenured teacher in NJ, it is almost impossible to lose your job, unless you choose to leave. This reduces the turnover of teaching positions.
Myth. Wanna know why the figure is only around 1%? Because many are forced to resign before charges are certified with the state.
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