Montclair vs. Maplewood vs. Summit? (Newark, West Orange: sales, real estate market, rental)
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Not the best time to buy a house given the crazy market, but here we are:
My wife and I have 5 yr old daughter who theoretically will start Kindergarten this year. I work in NY so would like something that's a 45-min-ish train ride to Penn. I'm in the TV biz, not the finance world, so we tend to lean toward more arty neighborhoods/schools. I've been to Summit a lot and really like it, but our friends in NJ also recommend Maplewood & Montclair. So far, my sense from talking to friends in NJ is:
Summit - Great town, great schools, great commute, higher house prices but (slightly) lower taxes. Everyone says "the town is full of finance people" though, and not very arty. Someone referred to the town as "Stepford" like.
Maplewood - Great town, great schools, great commute, slightly lower priced houses than Summit but slightly higher taxes. More arty than finance. People tell me it's "the Brooklyn of NJ".
Montclair - Great town, schools are good but I keep hearing vaguely mixed things like "good, but not as good as X town" or "they're okay", great commute, much bigger town so not as "neighborly" as Summit or Maplewood. High taxes, houses slightly cheaper than, say, Summit.
Does this seem like a fair assessment, or do you have a different opinion?
We also considered Westfield but the train seems a lot more inconvenient. Some have recommended Mountainside and suggested you just take the train from Summit, but that seems like it'd add a lot of time to the commute and Summit train parking seems like it'd be an issue.
All of those places are going to be closer to an hour on the train when things get going again. Mountainside is nice enough but lacks a downtown like every other town you mention. I think your summary is reasonable enough but the friends in Maplewood wish there were more walkable houses instead of having to drive into town.
You don't say which part of TV you're in but Cranford is on the Maplewood side of costs with a decent enough commute if you're doing off hours like live productions and there are places you can walk to the train station from, avoiding parking all together. There are a number of IA crew members who live out here as well.
I think these days that the artsy towns are the 'finance' towns as well as a married couple of musicians and painters couldn't afford to live in those towns.
There's less distinction. You'll have a guitar player or painter married to a surgeon or investment banker.
That said ... Montclair, West Orange, South Orange.
Montclair has great schools. The town is just more socioeconomically diverse than the others mentioned so if you are judging by say average test scores for example it may be lower.
You will get more house in Montclair compared to those other towns and imo Montclairs magnet school system is better than SO/Maplewood. But they are all good towns. So i would suggest looking at the total cost and normalize everything to truly compare towns.
Most of these towns are very active right now so be ready to be aggressive.
Of Montclair, Summit and Maplewood, one of those things is not like the others. Montclair and Maplewood overlap in some ways. Summit does not. So think about the type of town you want to live in.
Summit and Westfield overlap in some ways, but like you suggested there are no direct trains from Westfield to New York Penn during rush hour commutes. Westfield/NYC commutes work better with jobs in downtown Manahattan via the express trains to Newark (first and only stop) with a transfer to the Path to WTC. For midtown commutes, the switch to the 33rd street Path comes with a longer time frame with the eight or so Path stops in between.
Montclair or Maplewood are perfect choices for what you’re looking for.
Summit doesn’t really fit what you’re looking for.
It’s going to cost you a lot more to buy during COVID. But it sounds like you know this. Especially Montclair. Also Montclair is mostly a sealed bid process and logistically will be much harder to actually buy a house. I feel like my town, Glen Ridge, and Montclair, both sealed bid towns, have ratcheted up a good 5-10% since COVID. Notoriously known for limited stock / high demand has only gotten worse during COVID. And teaser asking prices remain. I follow the local real estate market pretty closely.
2 houses on my block just sold -
969k ask / 1.18 sold
1.129 ask / 1.401 sold
And if I see most recent sales in Montclair
999k ask / 1.268 sold
779k ask / 925k sold
869k ask / 1.026 sold
That’s not to say it’s more than Summit. It’s still less. But the difference of taxes offset it.
...you get the point. Bids were still pretty aggressive pre-COVID, but it’s definitely gotten more aggressive during COVID. To make matters worse Montclair (and moreso Glen Ridge) do have a tendency to re-assess on purchase if you have a low assessment. It’s technically illegal, but trust me, they do it and claim a virtual inspection based on MLS photos that are public. So if your assessment is like 60-70% of purchase and far away from town average of 90% I’d plan on potentially getting re-assessed (this happened to me FYI). So assume property taxes could be 90% of purchase x 3.2% rate. It’s far from guaranteed, but just letting you know it’s a possibility. For example, If you buy a house with 25k taxes, and wouldn’t have bought it if they were 30k, you don’t want to find out your taxes will be 30k a year after you purchase. So if the assessment is super low compared to what you are prepared to bid, I would run those numbers just so you know your downside on future taxes and potential ownership costs.
Again, I love the GR/Montclair Area. Great vibe great schools. It just seems to have gotten more and more expensive over the past 5 years. Taxes go up 2.5-2.7% every year (no matter what, but guess that’s expected) and our landscaping, housekeeping, water bills, insurance, repair work, havoc servicing, everything has ratcheted up way more than inflation each year. We are constantly switching services as many items have increased almost 50% since we purchased 4 years ago. Guess they have morphed into more premier towns.
Oh, and if you do try to buy in Montclair I really recommend getting a local broker that understands the bidding process. A broker from Summit probably won’t help you get a winning sealed bid in Montclair.
Not the best time to buy a house given the crazy market, but here we are:
My wife and I have 5 yr old daughter who theoretically will start Kindergarten this year. I work in NY so would like something that's a 45-min-ish train ride to Penn. I'm in the TV biz, not the finance world, so we tend to lean toward more arty neighborhoods/schools. I've been to Summit a lot and really like it, but our friends in NJ also recommend Maplewood & Montclair. So far, my sense from talking to friends in NJ is:
Summit - Great town, great schools, great commute, higher house prices but (slightly) lower taxes. Everyone says "the town is full of finance people" though, and not very arty. Someone referred to the town as "Stepford" like.
Maplewood - Great town, great schools, great commute, slightly lower priced houses than Summit but slightly higher taxes. More arty than finance. People tell me it's "the Brooklyn of NJ".
Montclair - Great town, schools are good but I keep hearing vaguely mixed things like "good, but not as good as X town" or "they're okay", great commute, much bigger town so not as "neighborly" as Summit or Maplewood. High taxes, houses slightly cheaper than, say, Summit.
Does this seem like a fair assessment, or do you have a different opinion?
We also considered Westfield but the train seems a lot more inconvenient. Some have recommended Mountainside and suggested you just take the train from Summit, but that seems like it'd add a lot of time to the commute and Summit train parking seems like it'd be an issue.
-LM
NJTransit’s on paper times may be 45 minutes to Penn - but delays are common with ongoing Tunnel/track issues. If you commute during normal rush hours, you should be ready for cancelled trains, trains going local instead of express and waiting on tracks while congestion clears etc. Regulars here can tell you more on that. Did you look into Westchester for a more reliable transit on Metro north? Heard the river towns described as artsy and they have an under 40 minute commute to Grand Central. You didn’t mention a budget, Westchester is definitely more expensive.
NJTransit’s on paper times may be 45 minutes to Penn - but delays are common with ongoing Tunnel/track issues. If you commute during normal rush hours, you should be ready for cancelled trains, trains going local instead of express and waiting on tracks while congestion clears etc. Regulars here can tell you more on that. Did you look into Westchester for a more reliable transit on Metro north? Heard the river towns described as artsy and they have an under 40 minute commute to Grand Central. You didn’t mention a budget, Westchester is definitely more expensive.
LARCHmontMAYBE?
I think he is cross shopping
We did too, and Larchmont was our top pick. Montclair is easily 20-25% less and it is mostly due to transit. I will tell you first hand that a 40 minute train from Montclair compared to a 40 min train from Westchester (on paper) is a good 10 minutes longer from NJ due to 1. A 6 minute rush hour delay (basically everyday) plus a 4 minute loss in getting in line to exit the platform at Penn. it’s super congested and not well suited for so many commuters. Also, if you factor in all the cancelled trains (maybe twice a month) it adds to that comparison.
Which is why a town like Montclair is less than a town like Larchmont. But priced more closely to a town in North Westchester that has a 50 minute train. Surprise surprise how that works...
We did too, and Larchmont was our top pick. Montclair is easily 20-25% less and it is mostly due to transit. I will tell you first hand that a 40 minute train from Montclair compared to a 40 min train from Westchester (on paper) is a good 10 minutes longer from NJ due to 1. A 6 minute rush hour delay (basically everyday) plus a 4 minute loss in getting in line to exit the platform at Penn. it’s super congested and not well suited for so many commuters. Also, if you factor in all the cancelled trains (maybe twice a month) it adds to that comparison.
Which is why a town like Montclair is less than a town like Larchmont. But priced more closely to a town in North Westchester that has a 50 minute train. Surprise surprise how that works...
The Larchmont market is ridiculous right now (then again so is everything in northern NJ/Westchester/CT).
The Larchmont market started getting really really strong in 2019 (houses that sat for over a year in 2017-2018 got relisted in 2019 and got into bidding wars). In 2019 there were bidding wars on everything. In 2020 pre-COVID, a lot of inventory came on the market and there were still bidding wars, although not as crazy as 2019. Now that there is less inventory during COVID, there are again crazy bidding wars.
I wouldn't want to buy during this time. Personally, I'd rather rent even though the rental market is even crazier but I'd rather overpay for a year or two than overpay on buying a house unless I think I will live there for 20+ years.
Last edited by Dabaomb; 08-03-2020 at 04:49 PM..
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