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Those who think they are paying "way too much in taxes" are not smart, but stupid. You have to be stupid to think such a thing. It's no different from somebody voicing his opinion that we are charged far too much for filet mignon because you can get hamburger for a lot less.
Look.......if I'm paying more for filet mignon in New Jersey than ALL other 50 states I'm damn sure gonna what to know why !!! Only a fool sits in silence when hes being taken advantage of !!!
And......if those who think those who are paying way too much in taxes are stupid because NJ has the highest property taxes of all 50 states then you literally have a state full of stupid people....except of course you who doesn't mind paying outrageous taxes. In a pie chart that would be roughly 10 million stupid people in one slice.....and only you in the other slice ?
So......because someone can afford it but finds the taxes to be outrageous is stupid if he doesn't pay the outrageous amount without complaining ? Do you always pay whatever anyone asks ???
I always pay whatever anyone asks IF I AM CHOOSING TO RECEIVE THE PRODUCT AND/OR SERVICE THEY ARE OFFERING FOR IT.
So, if ShopRite is selling watermelons for $8 each, but I want them for $4 each, I make a choice: either I pay what they're asking and get the watermelon, or I forget about the watermelon and I don't pay. If I really want a watermelon, I go elsewhere to try to find a better price. What do you do? Do you call over the manager and argue with him about the price of the watermelon? Do you creep around the produce department whining to everyone in earshot about how ridiculous the price of watermelon is, and how you're entitled to a $4 watermelon because your cousin in Iowa told you he bought one for $4 out there??
You CHOOSE to live in NJ, so yes, you pay what you are charged. If you don't like it, seek out a place that costs less. If you REALLY believed that other parts of the nation offered you the same experience in every area of life that NJ offers you and that the ONLY difference is that you pay higher taxes here, then you have to be a really stupid moron to stay.
But I think you KNOW damn well that if you left NJ and its high taxes you couldn't live as nice a life a you live here, and that's why you stay here. That's why people like you who whine and moan and stay are idiots.
You CHOOSE to live in NJ, so yes, you pay what you are charged. If you don't like it, seek out a place that costs less. If you REALLY believed that other parts of the nation offered you the same experience in every area of life that NJ offers you and that the ONLY difference is that you pay higher taxes here, then you have to be a really stupid moron to stay.
But I think you KNOW damn well that if you left NJ and its high taxes you couldn't live as nice a life a you live here, and that's why you stay here. That's why people like you who whine and moan and stay are idiots.
Exactly I know for one that New Jersey provides me a better living then I could get in any other state.
I always pay whatever anyone asks IF I AM CHOOSING TO RECEIVE THE PRODUCT AND/OR SERVICE THEY ARE OFFERING FOR IT. So.....by virtue of residing in New Jersey one is choosing and liking paying outrageous taxes.....since complaining is outruled under King Johnny their only alternative is to move to another state rather than initiate change ? If all the unhappy residents left for another state the only person left in New Jersey who was "happy" and wealthly enough to pay the taxes would be King Johnny !!! Its just like Mel Brooks says......."Its good to be the King" !!!
So, if ShopRite is selling watermelons for $8 each, but I want them for $4 each, I make a choice: either I pay what they're asking and get the watermelon, or I forget about the watermelon and I don't pay. If I really want a watermelon, I go elsewhere to try to find a better price. What do you do? Do you call over the manager and argue with him about the price of the watermelon? Do you creep around the produce department whining to everyone in earshot about how ridiculous the price of watermelon is, and how you're entitled to a $4 watermelon because your cousin in Iowa told you he bought one for $4 out there??
You CHOOSE to live in NJ, so yes, you pay what you are charged. If you don't like it, seek out a place that costs less. If you REALLY believed that other parts of the nation offered you the same experience in every area of life that NJ offers you and that the ONLY difference is that you pay higher taxes here, then you have to be a really stupid moron to stay.
But I think you KNOW damn well that if you left NJ and its high taxes you couldn't live as nice a life a you live here, and that's why you stay here. That's why people like you who whine and moan and stay are idiots.
OK...so under your plan teachers don't get a retirement plan ?
No. Under "my plan", teachers get something similar to a 401k like anyone else. You don't get to buy risky investments and throw the risk at the taxpayer who is hit with a double-whammy (namely, tax hikes to cover loss of the pension fund and losses in their own investments)
Basically, pension funds are committing a major accounting fraud by attempting to pass off 8% "assumed" returns as risk free. If they are promised to the beneficiaries, that means that they are risk free for those beneficiaries, and the question becomes "who takes on the risk".
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Your really fooling yourself if you think the sad financial situation this state is in is due to teachers and police salaries and pensions........
I've actually read state expenses, and pensions are the main item that is growing uncontrollably.
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we've ALWAYS had teachers and police salaries and pensions since after WW2 but we had a balanced budget.....
I challenge you to back the assertion that the budget was always balanced. I think if the pension liabilities were expensed honestly (as they never are for defined benefit plans), you'd find big unfunded liabilities go a long way back.
The consequences of not funding a pension plan take a long time to come home. Basically, as long as the stock market keeps providing the average return, and retirees die at the rate that you think/hope they will, your pension fund is in the black. The latency between promising a pension to an employee, and that pension running into trouble, is literally a matter of decades.
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now EVERYONE spends more than they have including federal and local government and its become acceptable to operate at a deficit......the real culprits are the politicians who vote every year to operate under and unbalanced budget yet you wish to make teachers and police the scapegoats for irresponsible politicians
No, I'm not blaming the teachers and police for receiving these benefits. I'm blaming the politicians for giving it to them.
Out of control pension spending -- and it is out of control, as it is promised and therefore can't be cut -- is one of the major reasons that the state has financial difficulties.
Right - half your tax bill goes to K-12 education. The other half is normally divided between your town and your county. Your county takes the money for roads, libraries, county jail, county park system, etc.
I could understand complaining about high education taxes if you weren't getting anything for your money but NJ ranks in the top 4 in the country in almost every indicator of having a good public school system - and in most categories is #1 or #2. I have quite a few friends who are teachers. Some in NJ some in Philly - it's just like any other industry - they follow the money. If your district doesn't want to pay the going rate they won't attract the best and brightest teachers.
And you gotta get a grip with these stats from Mayflower - as if they're the only moving company out there or that most people don't move themselves. If people want to move, good for them, but more than enough people are moving into the state to replace them. If the state was actually losing population property values would be in free fall right now.
No. Under "my plan", teachers get something similar to a 401k like anyone else. You don't get to buy risky investments and throw the risk at the taxpayer who is hit with a double-whammy (namely, tax hikes to cover loss of the pension fund and losses in their own investments)
Basically, pension funds are committing a major accounting fraud by attempting to pass off 8% "assumed" returns as risk free. If they are promised to the beneficiaries, that means that they are risk free for those beneficiaries, and the question becomes "who takes on the risk".
I've actually read state expenses, and pensions are the main item that is growing uncontrollably.
I challenge you to back the assertion that the budget was always balanced. I think if the pension liabilities were expensed honestly (as they never are for defined benefit plans), you'd find big unfunded liabilities go a long way back. When Clinton left office there was actually a surplus.....but I do agree that the vast majority of the problem rests at the feet of politicians who spend more than they have !!!
The consequences of not funding a pension plan take a long time to come home. Basically, as long as the stock market keeps providing the average return, and retirees die at the rate that you think/hope they will, your pension fund is in the black. The latency between promising a pension to an employee, and that pension running into trouble, is literally a matter of decades.
No, I'm not blaming the teachers and police for receiving these benefits. I'm blaming the politicians for giving it to them.
Out of control pension spending -- and it is out of control, as it is promised and therefore can't be cut -- is one of the major reasons that the state has financial difficulties.
.....
By the way....concerning out of control education costs.....you might also want to thank George Bush who gave us no child left behind and didn't fund it.....George believes that all children should function on grade level.....that means a teacher is expected to have a child with an IQ level of 60-70 score the same on a standardized test as a child with an IQ level of 100+ ......of course there were no instructions on how to accomplish this.....just the mandate to do it at no matter what the cost.
Last edited by FlyersFan; 09-28-2009 at 10:33 PM..
I always pay whatever anyone asks IF I AM CHOOSING TO RECEIVE THE PRODUCT AND/OR SERVICE THEY ARE OFFERING FOR IT.
So, if ShopRite is selling watermelons for $8 each, but I want them for $4 each, I make a choice: either I pay what they're asking and get the watermelon, or I forget about the watermelon and I don't pay. If I really want a watermelon, I go elsewhere to try to find a better price. What do you do? Do you call over the manager and argue with him about the price of the watermelon? Do you creep around the produce department whining to everyone in earshot about how ridiculous the price of watermelon is, and how you're entitled to a $4 watermelon because your cousin in Iowa told you he bought one for $4 out there??
You CHOOSE to live in NJ, so yes, you pay what you are charged. If you don't like it, seek out a place that costs less. If you REALLY believed that other parts of the nation offered you the same experience in every area of life that NJ offers you and that the ONLY difference is that you pay higher taxes here, then you have to be a really stupid moron to stay.
But I think you KNOW damn well that if you left NJ and its high taxes you couldn't live as nice a life a you live here, and that's why you stay here. That's why people like you who whine and moan and stay are idiots.
Wanna bet I couldn't live a nicer life than I did in NJ? You'd lose big time! I could fit my old house in NJ, in my garage and the bedroom above it in my NC house. My taxes are 1/3 of what they were there, so I have a lot of extra spending money which makes me very happy indeed! BTW, if you want decent watermelon, get it at a farmers market which is cheaper in any state than at a supermarket. The "smart people" whether they are still in NJ, or have moved on, figured that one out a long time ago!
So.....by virtue of residing in New Jersey one is choosing and liking paying outrageous taxes.....
Wow, you might finally be catching on! You have it right, here!
It's just like someone going to ShopRite and picking up a watermelon, he would only do it if he CHOOSES to because he is CHOOSING and PAYING what is being asked by ShopRite for it. If he didn't, he'd GO ELSEWHERE to try to get what he wants in terms of price and quality.
It's called "BASIC ECONOMICS", AKA "supply and demand".
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan
since complaining is outruled under King Johnny their only alternative is to move to another state rather than initiate change ? If all the unhappy residents left for another state the only person left in New Jersey who was "happy" and wealthly enough to pay the taxes would be King Johnny !!!
Its just like Mel Brooks says......."Its good to be the King" !!!
What does "outruled" mean? That's not a word.
People can complain all they want, and I can call those people whiners and jerks all I want. Yes, their only alternative is to go elsewhere to find whatever it is they're looking for in terms of what they pay and what they get in return if they don't like the terms here in NJ. Just like the watermelon example, again.
If all the unhappy residents left NJ for another state, then that means DEMAND would go DOWN, and SUPPLY would go UP, and this means that PRICES would DROP. Comprende??? Here is a chart to help you understand this most basic principle of market economics, since you seem to have such a hard time understanding it:
The price P of a product is determined by a balance between production at each price (supply S) and the desires of those with purchasing power at each price (demand D). 2, along with a consequent increase in price (P) and quantity sold (Q) of the product.
What is it that makes you whiners think that there are no market factors influencing taxes and costs of living in different parts of the nation??? Are you that naive and ignorant, or do you just bury your heads in the sand on purpose so that you can whine with impunity?
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I know for one that New Jersey provides me a better living then I could get in any other state.
check the mls
