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Old 09-30-2009, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,404 posts, read 28,736,811 times
Reputation: 12067

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
it's not a surprise, and I agree with your last sentence, it's just the hypocrisy of the whole thing. the "cheaper, nirvana" states are being supported by the hated yankees.

What Tahiti said....no suprise just irking that a place like MS who is about # 2 on the Fed aid list get our money but hate us DAM yankees
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:31 AM
 
835 posts, read 1,180,780 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post
To fix NJ we have to do more at the county levels... if you put all public services at the county level rather than the municipality level costs would come way down.

We do have way too many cops. Too many small cities, too many cops. It's that simple. Consolidating the police forces would save money on salaries (especially at the high end, administrative/leadership positions) and on overhead (less stations, cars, etc).

Same can be said for fire stations and firemen.

Schools are a bit harder as there's generally a target student to teach ratio but you could likely close some schools. You could definitely reduce the administrative overhead of all the school districts and boards. You could definitely save a ton by consolidating bussing.

Then you have just Government. How many boards and other positions each city has could be eliminated? What about things like snow removal, garbage disposal? Granted, I'd love to see a lot of those things move to the private sector, but hell, if the Government is going to try they should at least push for some efficiency of scale.

Frankly, fixing a lot of NJ problems is easy. The issue is it would cost jobs, high paying jobs, high paying union jobs, the sort of high paying union jobs a politician can't talk about cutting and still get elected in this state.
The problem will never go away, to fix things would destroy to many livelyhoods public employees would have to lose their pension and jobs. Colleges have to lower their tuition, home sellers have to lower their home prices, mass transit prices have to come down, gas prices have to come down, taxes have to be eased up. Basically everything that happened in the last 20-30 years has to be undone. It just can't be done, its a death spiral that can only be corrected by the free market which is what is happening with people leaving NJ for other places.
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,404 posts, read 28,736,811 times
Reputation: 12067
Quote:
Originally Posted by block911 View Post
The problem will never go away, to fix things would destroy to many livelyhoods public employees would have to lose their pension and jobs. Colleges have to lower their tuition, home sellers have to lower their home prices, mass transit prices have to come down, gas prices have to come down, taxes have to be eased up. Basically everything that happened in the last 20-30 years has to be undone. It just can't be done, its a death spiral that can only be corrected by the free market which is what is happening with people leaving NJ for other places.
And plenty moving IN to replace those who have moved out
It's all relative...cheaper homes...cheaper taxes....cheaper insurance...equals LESS wages as well, it's all in line with the area's cost of living
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
2,771 posts, read 6,277,089 times
Reputation: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
10. Use commie government for only one rule, to cap the price of housing, so the middle class doesn't all have to move to North Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, and other points unknown, because "Housing is too expensive in commie Jersey "
In case you haven't noticed, "Commie government" has been doing everything it can to put a floor under housing prices for some time -- via manipulations on the supply end (foreclosure prevention measures, pushing down interest rates so that current owners can refinance) and the demand end (e.g. first time buyer credit, interventions to keep credit cheap).

I agree with you that putting a cap on prices would be a disaster -- this experiment has already been repeated in several different domains, the most relevant one being rent control. The end result is almost always a supply shortage, which ironically leads to price increases for anything that doesn't fall under the cap, and a gray market that either exploits the price gap or seeks to work around the supply crunch (e.g. illegal sublets, renting non-residential buildings, etc)

Ironically, it was interventions that were supposed to make housing more affordable that created the bubble.

I'd be quite happy if the federal government simply got out of the housing business. I don't completely blame the credit crunch on government, but I don't believe their "universal home ownership" policies helped a whole lot.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,375 posts, read 20,806,914 times
Reputation: 9987
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
i've brought this up before...all to deafening silence.
I'll try to tackle this inquiry in the most rational manner possible.

First of all, the District of Columbia (which goes 90% for the Democrats) is curiously left out of this discussion, when pure politics are mentioned. The rate of federal outlay in the District is about 5 and a half times higher than what is generated. Maryland and Virginia rank comparably high, and they are proximate to D.C. The important consideration in this matrix is predominance of federal employees. Their salaries matter, and are counted in this assessment. That's why D.C. is as high as it is. To extend that, look at land usages by state. New Jersey has the highest percentage of land owned by private entities, be it either residential or commercial property. It is in large measure, a private sector state, at least when it comes to generating income on a local level. However, though I don't have data to support my theory, I would venture to say that NJ has a much larger number of people dependent upon employment on either the local, county or state level. Unfortunately, these figures do not reflect that 58 cents (or 62 cents??) back for every dollar allocated. The economy is inherently different, therefore, based much less on federal entities (such as Fort Dix, or McGuire, for instance), which garner more federal employee salaries.

Contrast that to New Mexico, which has the distinction of being the state that has the largest amount of land owned by the federal government (either 61 or 62% of the land in NM is under federal control). I can't tell you how many agencies here are controlled by Washington D.C. They are too numerous to count. But these agencies employ state residents, and their salaries are counted towards this matrix. Again, that is why Maryland and Virginia (not to mention D.C.) are so high up on the list, year after year, with the New Mexico's, the Mississippi's, etc. The other factor is # of residents on federal entitlement programs, such as SSI and Medicare. The higher # as a percentage, the more that counts towards the ratio on the plus side. However, this is secondary to the federal influence that a state might have, relative to economic activity. Powerful members of Congress (Senator Byrd comes to mind immediately) can extract much more in federal grant money if they know how to manipulate spending to comply with federal regulations.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,711,393 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
It's quite simple, really; only 10 steps:

1. Get rid of Corzine
2. Fire 80% of all police
3. Fire 80% of all teachers
4. Cut other school spending by 80%
5. Cut property taxes by 80%
6. Cut corporate taxes by 80%
7. Cut funding of all state colleges and universities by 80%, except Rutgers which we cut by 98%
8. Fire 90% of government workers and eliminate 100% of housing codes, permits, regulations, etc.
9. Let everyone have a gun so they can do their own protection and justice and we can then eliminate all the courts except maybe 3, one for North Jersey, one for Central Jersey, and one for South Jersey
10. Use commie government for only one rule, to cap the price of housing, so the middle class doesn't all have to move to North Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, and other points unknown, because "Housing is too expensive in commie Jersey "

See? 10 simple steps to Nirvana Jersey!

looks good except for number 10.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Marion County, FL
1,288 posts, read 2,894,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post
To fix NJ we have to do more at the county levels... if you put all public services at the county level rather than the municipality level costs would come way down.
Maybe in the more rural and suburban counties, but in counties like Hudson, the costs would skyrocket.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Marion County, FL
1,288 posts, read 2,894,416 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post

We do have way too many cops. Too many small cities, too many cops. It's that simple. Consolidating the police forces would save money on salaries (especially at the high end, administrative/leadership positions) and on overhead (less stations, cars, etc).

I wouldn't try that in Hudson County.

Same can be said for fire stations and firemen.

Until you have a fire in your home and the response time isn't quick enough.

Then you have just Government. How many boards and other positions each city has could be eliminated?

Here in Bayonne, at least, the boards are staffed by volunteers.

What about things like snow removal, garbage disposal? Granted, I'd love to see a lot of those things move to the private sector,

You have got to be kidding. The prices would skyrocket, and the streets would be cleared days after a snowfall, not during or immediately after.As to private garbage removal, move to Florida -- you pay a private contractor quarterly, and they tell you how much and what you're allowed to put out. Go over, or put out disallowed items, and you can haul them off to the dump yourself.

but hell, if the Government is going to try they should at least push for some efficiency of scale.

Frankly, fixing a lot of NJ problems is easy. The issue is it would cost jobs, high paying jobs, high paying union jobs,
You really think municipal employees are highly-paid? Wow -- I've got a swamp on Tatooine I'd like to sell you.
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Forest Hills
555 posts, read 1,654,371 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyA11 View Post
You really think municipal employees are highly-paid? Wow -- I've got a swamp on Tatooine I'd like to sell you.
Absolutely... considering the skill set and education level of most of them, they are way overpaid... thus the reason there's always a huge list of applicants looking for those jobs (reference the "I want to be a cop" thread). When there's an over abudance of applicants (supply) and no jobs (demand) that tends to indicate you're overpaid.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Marion County, FL
1,288 posts, read 2,894,416 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemmert View Post
Absolutely... considering the skill set and education level of most of them, they are way overpaid... thus the reason there's always a huge list of applicants looking for those jobs (reference the "I want to be a cop" thread). When there's an over abudance of applicants (supply) and no jobs (demand) that tends to indicate you're overpaid.
You have no clue, do you? You obviously think all municipal jobs can be done by trained monkeys. The reality of that is completely opposite.

And education level has nothing to do with intelligence.

Try dealing with taxpayers on a daily basis as your paying job. I've love to see you dropped into the Tax Collector's Office, the City Clerk's Office, the City Council Office, the Building Department or the Health Department in any medium-to-large municipality here in NJ for just one week. Try dealing with taxpayers on a daily basis as your paying job.

Taxpayers have complaints ranging from the trivial to the serious -- and you're the front line of defense, whether on the phone or in person. You're the one who has to listen to tirades and profanity (with the occasional physical threat to your person), as well as tears, hard-luck stories, and genuinely awful situations. You do your best to help, and quite often, you can't -- or you have your efforts thrown back in your face.

Frankly, from your posts here, you're not temperamentally suited. By the end of that week -- probably long before -- you'd run screaming home.
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