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The article also states a 4% decline in ridership. Why should a gas tax subsidize transit?? Please subsidize is a gift and he has only cut a portion of it.
I highly doubt anyone will be stranded. People will adapt to new schedules & fares. This is not Christie's fault, it's the fault of the powers that be at NJ Transit that don't know how to run it.
The outcry is just more off the "not in my back yard syndrome" it's ok to tax & cut as long as it doesn't directly affect them.
In looking at the chart in the link ..they had a fare increase in 1990 of 9%..fares were not increased again until 2002..that's 12 years!!! Then again in 2005 and 2007..so it's been almost 3 years since the last increase
Ummm an increase in the fuel tax would increase the cost of mass transit so NJ transit would have to increase fares or we would have to provide a greater subsidy.
How would increase in gas tax increase NJT costs ?
Where was it ever decreed that public transportation was one's god given right???
If you use it, pay for it simple as that.
With the exception of toll highways, roads aren't funded on a user-pays basis.
What are the numbers ? Do the roads pay for themselves ?
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But yet through my taxes and everyone elses we are supposed to continue to gift NJ transit so the people who ride it can have cheaper fares???
You benefit from other people using mass transit (less traffic on the roads). So yes, one can make a good case for subsidizing mass transit (or imposing higher tolls on high traffic routes)
How would increase in gas tax increase NJT costs ?
The general inflationary pressures that higher gas prices cause, for one. And then to my knowledge, the busses dont run on hydrogen. I dont know where they get their gas, but if they get it the same way that we do, higher gas prices will increase operating costs. Even if they dont, revert back to reason number 1. There is no denying that every time there is a major upward shift in gas prices, we see increased inflationary pressures. Especially at the supermarket. If a transit worker has to pay more to eat, the tax payer has to pay him/her more to live. Then you have the transportation of workers AND materials to and from job sites, again, increasing operating costs, etc, etc, etc..
1. Whoever said life is fair?
2. Agreements made between (A) The state govt and (B) the unions that (C) the taxpayer shall bend over and take it at all times really don't mean a whole lot when (C) is OUT OF MONEY!
How would increase in gas tax increase NJT costs ?
Because they put fuel in buses and trains an increase in taxes would increase their costs. The same way it would increase your cost of putting fuel in your car.
Because they put fuel in buses and trains an increase in taxes would increase their costs. The same way it would increase your cost of putting fuel in your car.
Do those trains run on gas ? That's news to me. What are those electric rails on the tracks for then ?
BTW, if the mass transit system is paying some of that gas tax, maybe it does pay for itself on a net basis.
There is no denying that every time there is a major upward shift in gas prices, we see increased inflationary pressures. Especially at the supermarket. If a transit worker has to pay more to eat, the tax payer has to pay him/her more to live. Then you have the transportation of workers AND materials to and from job sites, again, increasing operating costs, etc, etc, etc..
yeah, I know, but I'm just talking fuel costs. I think a fuel tax hike it would hit the costs of driving much harder than it hit the costs of mass transit (especially trains). It would hit whichever mode is ultimately least fuel efficient hardest, and my bet is that mass transit is more fuel efficient.
The general inflationary pressures that higher gas prices cause, for one. ..... There is no denying that every time there is a major upward shift in gas prices, we see increased inflationary pressures. Especially at the supermarket..... If a transit worker has to pay more to eat, the tax payer has to pay him/her more to live. Then you have the transportation of workers AND materials to and from job sites, again, increasing operating costs, etc, etc, etc..
Any inflationary pressure from increasing the gas tax is effectively consumers internalizing more of the actual costs of their transactions. If you believe that carbon emissions have an effect on the environment, then every bit of gasoline that is burned without an adequate tax on it is causing an externality that the buyer and seller are not taking account of. While you might see higher prices as diminishing quality of life, there is as strong argument to be made that our quality of life is artificially inflated because we do not take adequate account of the waste we create.
Further, if you support "cheap" gas, then do you also support "cheap" labor? I ask because your point that we can consume a lot more with cheap fuel(less expensive goods at the supermarket, the costs of transportation of workers and materials to and from job sites, etc), also applies if we import cheap workers. I understand there are other issues that arise from large-scale labor importation, but my point is there are a lot of things we could do to reduce what things cost. All of these things are effectively the same as not taxing gasoline or having a low gas tax, there is nothing special or different about the level of the gas tax.
Last edited by gradstudent77; 03-06-2010 at 08:39 AM..
Ummm an increase in the fuel tax would increase the cost of mass transit so NJ transit would have to increase fares or we would have to provide a greater subsidy.
Again how is it fair that those who do not use mass transit have to pay for it. You don't use my car but you should make part of my payments. Sound fair?
To your first point, while a fuel tax would increase the total cost of mass transit, that total cost, and more importantly, the total cost per rider would increase at a lower rate than the cost per driver. Further, if the cost of driving increases, then more people would opt to ride mass transit and the large fixed costs of the whole mass transit would be split among more people.
To your second point, general tax funds build and maintain roads. Those general funds are drawn from the whole citizenry, including those that never drive. You scoff at the "subsidy" paid to NJT while the roads are almost entirely "subsidized".
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