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My experience was not what you describe. Every single hispanic workmate (with two exceptions I can think of) I had in Santa Fe spoke Spanish.
What era was this? If they were born after about 1960 and they weren't first-generation Mexican-Americans, then I can pretty much guarantee you their Spanish was very limited. The distinction here being that we're talking about Hispanics from northern NM who don't have any immediate ties to Mexico. The language started dying out for them around 1960s, 1970s - the kids from that era are almost exclusively English speakers. Their parents, on the other hand, (not many of whom are still around) and their older siblings are/were for the most part fully bilingual.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
People there still speak Spanish, and I'm told it's a somewhat archaic form of Spanish, going back centuries.
*Spoke* (the past tense) is the correct word. Let's be clear, this is something that has all but died out. Unfortunate and sad, as it was/is a rather quirkly dialect, and more importantly represents the passing of a culture that had been kind of unique in the world.
Milagro Beanfield War is both a nice book and a nice film. The author John Nichols is a white guy from the East Coast, but in his youth, while studying literature, he became immersed in the Argentine culture in NYC and thus was born his interest in Hispanic culture. He started picking up some Spanish at that time. Later moved to NM and the period in which he lived and wrote in NM, most of the older generation were still around. Hence I wouldn't be suprised if he didn't become fluent, although I've never seen or heard any full dialogue by him in Spanish.
In fact many white people who were born and raised in NM prior to the 1950s were fully fluent in Spanish - either the Mexican variety if they were located from Albuquerque southwards, or the NM dialect if they were up north.
I dont know why i have been always curious about the region of New Mexico. I have a book which said that in cesus of 1790, the 60% of the popullation where "criollo" which means pure white descendant of spaniards.
In this book, and comparing with other data, New Mexico was the region with the highest percentage of white during the New Spain.
I would like to know that if i go to places la Española, Pueblo in CO. or stuff like that i will find pure descendant of spaniards in that region, and if they still speaking spanish in their community,
For me is very instersting to know that.
thanks!
I found some pictures from an instituto of north new mexico, and i would say that this examples could be very close to a real spaniard phenotype
Yes. There were a lot of those people in the hills on the east side of Santa Fe, where some of the founding families settled, and ruled the city. Gradually over the years, many have sold their properties, but some are still there. You still have the original land grants scattered around NM, still in the hands of descendants of the original owners. This was lost in California, where there was an overwhelming land grab and abrogation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, due to California's more moderate climate, and desirable coastal location, not to mention the Gold Rush.
NM in some ways is like California used to be, in the last days of Mexican tenure. It's like walking back in time. The descendants of the Spaniards tend to maintain their traditional social customs and social circles.
I dont know why i have been always curious about the region of New Mexico. I have a book which said that in cesus of 1790, the 60% of the popullation where "criollo" which means pure white descendant of spaniards.
In this book, and comparing with other data, New Mexico was the region with the highest percentage of white during the New Spain.
I would like to know that if i go to places la Española, Pueblo in CO. or stuff like that i will find pure descendant of spaniards in that region, and if they still speaking spanish in their community,
For me is very instersting to know that.
thanks!
I found some pictures from an instituto of north new mexico, and i would say that this examples could be very close to a real spaniard phenotype
when i lived in las vegas (NM) i knew a student from spain who was in the area studying the style of spanish spoken by las vegas-area natives. he claimed it was unique to that region, spoken no where else in the world. kind of like finding a pocket of englishman in, say, west virginia, who were still using 'thee' and 'thou' in their everyday conversations.
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Originally Posted by TKO
My experience was not what you describe. Every single hispanic workmate (with two exceptions I can think of) I had in Santa Fe spoke Spanish. Dozens of people. They call it the Ozarks of New Mexico up there because they're very insular and they maintained their traditions despite outside influence. Doesn't refer to all of them, of course, but large enough groups.
My experience was not what you describe. Every single hispanic workmate (with two exceptions I can think of) I had in Santa Fe spoke Spanish. Dozens of people. They call it the Ozarks of New Mexico up there because they're very insular and they maintained their traditions despite outside influence. Doesn't refer to all of them, of course, but large enough groups.
None of them go back and forth from Mexico, they deny the connection entirely. Their relatives were in NM since the conquistador days. In the furthest province, rural and lightly populated with no real economy, from Mexico City.
My experience living here for years in Santa Fe, is that I speak better Spanish than the descendants of those Spaniards. Many have lost the language, and only learned it in high school, or used it for their HS "foreign" language requirement to brush up on their latent knowledge of it. A lot of kids grow up understanding it, from adults (mostly grandparents at this point) speaking it in the home, but the kids' knowledge is passive, not active. Though probably there are some families who manage to instill it in their kids to a sufficient extent, that they do grow up speaking it well.
when i lived in las vegas (NM) i knew a student from spain who was in the area studying the style of spanish spoken by las vegas-area natives. he claimed it was unique to that region, spoken no where else in the world. kind of like finding a pocket of englishman in, say, west virginia, who were still using 'thee' and 'thou' in their everyday conversations.
I've heard claims that there are such pockets in Appalachia; people speaking something close to Elizabethan English or some such. Except many Appalachian people are descended from Scots (Scots-Irish), not English. But still...their language usage stems from the same era, so rumor has it.
My experience living here for years in Santa Fe, is that I speak better Spanish than the descendants of those Spaniards. Many have lost the language, and only learned it in high school, or used it for their HS "foreign" language requirement to brush up on their latent knowledge of it. A lot of kids grow up understanding it, from adults (mostly grandparents at this point) speaking it in the home, but the kids' knowledge is passive, not active. Though probably there are some families who manage to instill it in their kids to a sufficient extent, that they do grow up speaking it well.
Yep, it's not "proper" Spanish to be sure but it is unique. My dad, who grew up in Mexico City, commented on that whenever he had to work up there. I worked in Santa Fe in state government, and dealt with many customers in the surrounding area, as well as colleagues, for a number of years and I'm basing my take on that. Most I met were very proud of their Spanish heritage and the fact they still spoke Spanish. This was iin the early and mid 90's. I don't imagine it has changed that much, but perhaps it has.
Yep, it's not "proper" Spanish to be sure but it is unique. My dad, who grew up in Mexico City, commented on that whenever he had to work up there. I worked in Santa Fe in state government, and dealt with many customers in the surrounding area, as well as colleagues, for a number of years and I'm basing my take on that. Most I met were very proud of their Spanish heritage and the fact they still spoke Spanish. This was iin the early and mid 90's. I don't imagine it has changed that much, but perhaps it has.
I think the folks in the villages north of town, up in the mountains, may have retained their language better (the younger generations, anyway), as it's a more conservative area than the "big city" of Santa Fe, where there's a lot more Gringo/English influence. Working in State government, you may have been in a position to serve some of the hillbilly folks, so to speak.
I think the folks in the villages north of town, up in the mountains, may have retained their language better (the younger generations, anyway), as it's a more conservative area than the "big city" of Santa Fe, where there's a lot more Gringo/English influence. Working in State government, you may have been in a position to serve some of the hillbilly folks, so to speak.
Lol, and worked with them too! Some of those state jobs seemed to be passed down from generation to generation up there. I suspect that has changed.
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