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I am a parent; I teach everyday. If a teacher thinks of me as an outsider, well, that's a problem.
Thank goodness you left teaching, it was obviously not the best choice in career for you.
I don't think it's the role of the school to every give up on a student.
The best and brightest will be fine, it's the less than marginal ones that will only continue to become a drain on us as a society. Those are the ones that schools need to focus on. They should not be abandoned. It's a lot easier to learn a trade when you are 16 then when you are 30.
You are a parent teaching YOUR children, over whom you have control. You control their environment to a large extent and quite a few things in their lives.
It's not the same in a classroom, and you cannot seriously compare the two. So you have never been on the other side of that desk, obviously. You're trying to compare children in the home (which will number from 1-5 at most) to a classroom of 20-30 students with differing abilities.
The less-than-marginal will probably almost always be a drain on society; there are a few that won't, but those are probably very few in number.
The average, above-average and the best/brightest should be given the greatest opportunities, as their contribution will be greater in the long run in most cases.
As I said...until you have been in a classroom, you don't really have a clue.
I was damn good at what I did--I had students come back years later to thank me for demanding the best from them.
But I knew--even with that--that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in a classroom governed by a bell and pompous administrators and sometimes-stupid parents.
Those parents who were genuinely concerned and wanted serious help--they got it from me. Those who wanted "there sons paper graded farely" (from a nasty handwritten note one year) were asked to come to the school for a conference...and those of this ilk never did.
Those Asian kids are studying Algebra in mid-school while their peers are trying to figure out how they can wear their pants a little lower or tighter, or their skirts a little shorter. That is nobody's fault but the parents. It is cultural. No other factors apply.
Not exactly the whole story. The Asian kids are not exactly welcomed into the the same clique with the other kids. There is a perception that they are smart. This leads to exclusion, which leaves them nothing else to do but study.
I agree Asian parents demand more than some parents, but not all.
I am a veteran, masters-level teacher who strongly disagrees that "the average, above-average and the best/brightest should be given the greatest opportunities."
Who labels a child "less-than marginal" in the first place? No quality teachers with whom I have worked all these many years.
From maximum security girls' reformatory, to private school for dysfunctional teens, to the Navajo Reservation, to Spanish-speaking ESL early primary,to Anchorage School District with 97 home languages.... every child is special and every child has the capability to do great things.
All children deserve to be given the greatest opportunities.
Our school systems are in trouble. The issues are multifaceted and are not a black/ white dichotomy of schools-at-fault versus parents-at-fault. It is a combination of all those factors; however, then throw in the media, electronic devises, devaluation of books in the computer age, and a world changing so fast it's hard to keep up.
I am a New Mexican teaching in Alaska while my land & home is in northern NM. I was told at interviews in my northern NM area that not even an Albuquerque Hispanic would get a job easily in their communities, that those jobs went to locals. Principals told me they would love to be able to hire me but I didn't stand a chance. That gives another glimpse into the politics in some NM towns and opens up other cans of worms. In contrast, Alaska made me an offer I could not refuse.
I don't think it's the role of the school to every give up on a student.
The best and brightest will be fine, it's the less than marginal ones that will only continue to become a drain on us as a society. Those are the ones that schools need to focus on. They should not be abandoned. It's a lot easier to learn a trade when you are 16 then when you are 30.
Karma, I'm a teacher (at the middle school level), and I agree with you, but I also agree with Cathy. I wouldn't say "giving up" on any kid is the right thing to do, but there need to be alternatives for the kids who just aren't academically inclined. As you say, it's a lot easier to learn a trade at 16.
Here's the thing - we aren't being asked to teach them a trade that might actually help them out in life. We're being asked to prepare them for college. I have kids in my classes (6th, 7th & 8th grade) who can't multiply 3x4, who can't spell words such as "happy" or "better." There's got to be a way to sort this out so that I can either focus on them or focus on the kids who are eager to learn (or at least not opposed to it). It is almost impossible to do both. I can't prepare a thirteen year old who can't spell his own name for college while trying to get through 180 days of curriculum with the other students.
The question, which I'm not prepared to answer, is which students are getting the short end of the stick here? And how does it get fixed? If I remember rightly from my Master's courses in education, tracking programs have been shown to be racially & economically biased. So instead of sorting out who goes to college and who goes to trade school, the default is now that everyone is going to college. It's just not realistic, and unfair on all sides.
I also have to say that I taught in one of the toughest neighborhoods in NYC, and I find teaching in ABQ much more draining. From my perspective, the parents here are definitely less involved, and don't do much to support their kids' educations at home. That just reflects what I've seen in one classroom at one school here, so it's not across the board, obviously.
As Riverdog pointed out, schools are supposed to be preparing our kids for college. But not every child has either the aptitude or the desire to attend college. Which presents a dilemma.
We used to have a solution to that in this country, and many other countries still do. Here is an example.
Suppose you had a system that taught all students the same up until about the 5th grade. At that point through tests, teacher/parent interaction and just knowing the kids, it became clear that some had the ability for college and some didn't. Starting in the 6th grade some kids went to one school that focused on strengthening the core skills of reading, writing, math, etc. and the rest went to another school that began exposing them to the more "advanced" types of classes.
Once those students reach and complete the 10th grade they have "graduated" from high school. However, they aren't done yet. Those that attended the advanced school continue on with 2 more years of preparatory school before they begin college.
Those that went to the "normal" school choose a career. At that point they begin a 3 year apprenticeship that combines both theoretical learning in the classroom and hands on training and experience with a master of the craft.
By the time it's all said and done, you have either a college graduate with a professional degree or you have a skilled craftsman with the skills to serve them for the rest of their lives. Either way, it's a win/win situation.
The system I described above is the basics of the German schools system.
I'm curious...a 6-8th grader who cannot spell simple words, do basic math....has each of these children been evaluated for learning disabilities? Seems to me that a child of average intelligence should know those basics at that age and for the ones who are not there yet..why aren't they on an IEP?
MG120, your system sounds logical but what about the child of the extremely successful and highly achieving parents who has trouble with the fast track?
I can see mom and dad not settling for anything but "the best" for this kid and the lawsuits begin....
I'm curious...a 6-8th grader who cannot spell simple words, do basic math....has each of these children been evaluated for learning disabilities? Seems to me that a child of average intelligence should know those basics at that age and for the ones who are not there yet..why aren't they on an IEP?
A lot of them are on IEPs. Which gets them what, a couple hours a week of reading help? According to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), you can't segregate kids with disabilities out from the regular classes unless they are disruptive. They have to be in the Least Restrictive Environment, which is the regular class. In a class of 30, there are maybe 5-6 kids with IEPs, and 25 who are at or close to grade level. Do I focus on the majority, or not?
Also, I teach a couple of classes with kids who are Emotionally Disturbed. They are deemed to be of average intelligence, but their learning is impeded by their behavior. What happens to them if they don't learn a trade? Many of them have already been in trouble with the police. What is the incentive for them to turn themselves around when year after year they are forced to take grade-level tests for which they are not prepared, which only seem to reinforce their self-image of academic failure?
I'm curious...a 6-8th grader who cannot spell simple words, do basic math....has each of these children been evaluated for learning disabilities? Seems to me that a child of average intelligence should know those basics at that age and for the ones who are not there yet..why aren't they on an IEP?
Many of them are. When my wife taught 6th grade she would have every student tested by APS to baseline them against the 5th grade standards. At her school, only about 10% met the 5th grade standard. Another third were below standard, and the rest were in the "can't spell their own name" category.
She would send the results along to Special Ed to see if any qualified for IEP, but they simply did not have the resources to deal with every single child. She created a group that worked with the feeder school teachers to see if they could better prepare the kids. Most of the those teachers were burned out from fighting the district and the kid's parents and just wanted to hand the kids off to someone else.
The parents had the attitude that it was the school's job to educate their kids, and they should not be bothered. Many students missed class, did not complete homework, or were serious discipline problems. The principle took the approach that school was a privilege and he was not going to waste his time with the bad kids. He expelled kids all the time. At that school, their were a small group of "good kids" who did very well. These kids were from the same socio-economic background as the others. There was another group that were average, and the rest failed out by 8th grade.
At one point the district threatened to remove the principle, but he was popular with the parents of the good kids. There are two sides to every issue.
Last edited by trappedinNM; 12-17-2009 at 07:51 AM..
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