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I wouldnt say racism, however I would say classism. Ghetto people lives are forver tied to the hood like if its engineered this way. The people of ghetto end up going through prison industrial complex pharmacutical industrial complex aswell as the education imdustrial.complex to some extent. Socioeconomics like broken famlies, single parent homes and crime, poor schools perpetuates the cycles of many people that live the ghetto. Also note in the south bronx there used to be poor whites who also had many social problems of many blacks and hispanics today. I used to know a jewish lady who used to live on simpson street, later on in her life she moved to riverdale, shes dead due to years of smoking since teen years, however she was a single mom at the age of thirteen way back. Dont be fooled that everything in the good ole days of bx is white and nice. For some people the hood is all they ever know.
Yea your right it's not just racial but I was being more specific for blacks and for blacks it classism and racism. But yea there are plenty of white ppl who go through these same thing I know some ghetto white ppl here in NYC.
But regardless like I was saying nobody chooses to be ghetto besides dumb middle class suburban kids that think it's cool to act gangsta but they'd still never move into ENY these ppl are stuck in a cycle and are too ignorant to find a way out. And it's easy to say well these ppl did it so why can't they that's not how humans work were sheep we follow the ppl around us it's a small minority that can usually think outside the box see the big picture and realize whats going on. These ghetto ppl don't even know why their in the that situation themselves.
Last edited by joshd9124; 01-01-2012 at 11:00 PM..
Why do you think such a large number of blacks in the ghetto are the way they are it's not that some just chose to be ignorant when they moved to NY from the South. They came here with the idea that there less than a human and can never really amount to anything from what they were told back in the South with slavery and that mindset gets past down from generation to generation. It's to the point where these little ghetto kids think the only thing they can ever amount to is a rapper or ball player because I'm told I'm never gonna be a Dr., a businessman, or lawyer. now there's def a lot of blacks that get past this from the ghetto they usually the rare cases where they had a good parent/parents or good role model but most of these kids don't.
We can't just look at these ppl and say he you asked to be poor, ignorant, and violent nobody wants that and if nobody wants that there most be a deeper reason for this behavior to persist. Like I said in my previous post it's because or socio-economics, failing educational system, and terrible often times abusive or absent family units.
Good points. I think people have to have good role models, believe that they have intrinsic value as people, and the expectation that they can make something of themselves in the future to stop what is basically self-destructive behavior.
Why do you think such a large number of blacks in the ghetto are the way they are it's not that some just chose to be ignorant when they moved to NY from the South. They came here with the idea that there less than a human and can never really amount to anything from what they were told back in the South with slavery and that mindset gets past down from generation to generation. It's to the point where these little ghetto kids think the only thing they can ever amount to is a rapper or ball player because I'm told I'm never gonna be a Dr., a businessman, or lawyer. now there's def a lot of blacks that get past this from the ghetto they usually the rare cases where they had a good parent/parents or good role model but most of these kids don't.
We can't just look at these ppl and say he you asked to be poor, ignorant, and violent nobody wants that and if nobody wants that there most be a deeper reason for this behavior to persist. Like I said in my previous post it's because or socio-economics, failing educational system, and terrible often times abusive or absent family units.
I don't feel like slavery is the reason why a larger # of blacks remain to be ghetto. IMO, the mass media associates and promotes ghetto-ness/thug life with black people and minority groups. Some people need to wake up and understand that racism and stereotypes still and will always exists in the human culture. Either, You understand and overcome it or you understand and become it.
People are ghetto/hood for various reasons.
1. They love the ghetto/hood mentality since their favorite role model (rapper, athlete, local thug, etc) exhibit that mind-frame. The mass media promotes it in songs, music videos, movies, etc and the weak minded folks mimic it. Also, the behavior might be passed down from parent to child or sibling to sibling. At the end of the day, the individual has to decide which path in life he/she wants to walk as this is the whole purpose of life.
2. The environment encourages that type of mentality. The ghetto/hood is a rough place to be Captain America. An educated well dress person might be heckled for "acting White" or acting "superior." (Example: Oreo = educated, articulate, well dress black person aka black on the outside, white on the inside)
1. They love the ghetto/hood mentality since their favorite role model (rapper, athlete, local thug, etc) exhibit that mind-frame. The mass media promotes it in songs, music videos, movies, etc and the weak minded folks mimic it. Also, the behavior might be passed down from parent to child or sibling to sibling. At the end of the day, the individual has to decide which path in life he/she wants to walk as this is the whole purpose of life.
2. The environment encourages that type of mentality. The ghetto/hood is a rough place to be Captain America. An educated well dress person might be heckled for "acting White" or acting "superior." (Example: Oreo = educated, articulate, well dress black person aka black on the outside, white on the inside)
Thats why I've always said people should be held ACCOUNTABLE for their actions instead of blaming the SYSTEM, RACISIM, OR THE WHITE MAN on their short comings.
No one puts a gun to anyone's head and tells them to act, dress and talk ghetto. No one tells them put a tatoo on your neck that says "thug life" or a tear drop under your eye. Thats a decision the person made ON THEIR OWN. Then they wonder why they can't get ahead in life, fail job interviews, etc. They are UNMARKETABLE to main street America. Flipping burgers and security guards are the chossen professions for ghetto people. And they deserve it. SMH
Thats why I've always said people should be held ACCOUNTABLE for their actions instead of blaming the SYSTEM, RACISIM, OR THE WHITE MAN on their short comings.
No one puts a gun to anyone's head and tells them to act, dress and talk ghetto. No one tells them put a tatoo on your neck that says "thug life" or a tear drop under your eye. Thats a decision the person made ON THEIR OWN. Then they wonder why they can't get ahead in life, fail job interviews, etc. They are UNMARKETABLE to main street America. Flipping burgers and security guards are the chossen professions for ghetto people. And they deserve it. SMH
I agree we should all be held accountable as individuals but thats not how human beings work regardless of race or class were a social species that follows those around us most of the time. Like I said before theres always some ppl in each group that realize's the big picture or see's outside the box but not everyone thinks like that unfortunately.
I don't feel like slavery is the reason why a larger # of blacks remain to be ghetto. IMO, the mass media associates and promotes ghetto-ness/thug life with black people and minority groups. Some people need to wake up and understand that racism and stereotypes still and will always exists in the human culture. Either, You understand and overcome it or you understand and become it.
People are ghetto/hood for various reasons.
1. They love the ghetto/hood mentality since their favorite role model (rapper, athlete, local thug, etc) exhibit that mind-frame. The mass media promotes it in songs, music videos, movies, etc and the weak minded folks mimic it. Also, the behavior might be passed down from parent to child or sibling to sibling. At the end of the day, the individual has to decide which path in life he/she wants to walk as this is the whole purpose of life.
2. The environment encourages that type of mentality. The ghetto/hood is a rough place to be Captain America. An educated well dress person might be heckled for "acting White" or acting "superior." (Example: Oreo = educated, articulate, well dress black person aka black on the outside, white on the inside)
I agree with this I was stating that slavery and racism is the root of this inferior mindset that most ghetto blacks have today, but all those things you listed further boost that mindset.
I think it's pretty clear that the potential of Grand Concourse is anything but hidden..it is very obvious in fact and that's why so many people are moving there and buying co-ops, at least in the lower Concourse. If you go around the Yankee Stadium area, you will note all the great buildings, new infrastructure like street lights, plazas, tree plantings, etc, and you will also not the growing mix of residents. The community has a new metr-north stop, new major retail development, new waterfront parkland (and more coming), and is slated to have the entire waterfront redeveloped as a new middle class community with residential towers, parkland, and retail.
Actually you can and I hope the majority of ghetto people leave. After all its their fault the area is like that. Can't blame no one else, they asked for it. So who cares if they feel resentment? Hopefully they'll act on their feelings then get arrested and another hood person is removed for the area.
Put it this way...Being "hood" is a frame of mind. It is a perpetuation of ignorance. If I gather every person from the so called "hood" and brought them out to where I live, where I live would become "the hood." Not because of the location but because of the thought processes these people have. Just think, if we begin to educate one another and speak out against ignorance then the "hood" would no longer exist. It's really that simple. The hard part is getting people to listen.
Here is an excerpt of what I said on the City-DataLong Island forum when people are often voicing ambivalent or negative views toward "diversity" on Long Island (which always involves racial/ethnic issues and labels and all that this brings with it). I said:
"The outlook/view that I have evolved into regarding such matters can be summarized as such: 'I don't care about the color of skin; I care about the color of behavior'. As long as a person can conduct himself or herself in a civilized, appropriate manner and respect the dignity, sanctity, safety and peace-of-mind of other persons, maintain social and civil decorum, and care about maintaining the environment around them, that is all I care about. I don't care at all what anyone looks like or what ethnic/racial/other labels they have affixed to them by the larger society or by themselves; all I care about is how people choose to conduct themselves as individuals. I can have relations with and like or even love anyone if we connect on the heart- and head-level -- regardless of externalities."
In other words, as long as people are what I called "CIVILIZED" in their behavior, demeanor and outlook, I have no problem with them and accept them wholly and cheerfully. If they are, instead, "UNCIVILIZED", then I am their worst enemy and actively oppose them. We (the civilized people of this world) shouldn't have to share society with the likes of such people (the uncivilized people of this world). And it cuts across ALL categories of people. This is NOT a racial or ethnic issue. I have met both civlized and uncivilized persons of ALL races, ethnicities, creeds, et al. To illustrate, I myself am a Caucasian White Jewish male and yet some (not all) of the most reprehensible people I have ever met in my life have been fellow Jews . . . and it is not because said persons were Jewish but because, as INDIVIDUALS, said persons chose to be uncivil, lacking in class, of low or unredeeming character, of ill demeanor, et al. As far as I'm concerned, they are "ghetto" as much as any "ghetto" person you have in mind. Incivility is incivility, regardless of who emanates it.
UsAll...you do realize that mentality is new..as in....it applied to everyone who was white, and people who were black were treated as animals at worst, inferior at best, and were afforded no rights whatsoever. So while I agree with your statement, you cannot simply apply it across the board when whites didn't even consider blacks people. You do realize women weren't even allowed to attend IVY league schools until 1970 and interacial marriage was illegal until the 70s. Parkchester had an open and flagrant policy of forbidding people of color until 1979.
As soon as people are TREATED equally, and have respect for EACHOTHER, only then will you be able to say "act accordingly and you will be treated accordingly." It has never been the case in our history..so why be surprised when people act differently than what you expect? And furthermore, I can't imagine having an entire society violently surpress you and basically own you as a slave, and then wonder why you are not smiling and cheery all day.
UsAll...you do realize that mentality is new..as in....it applied to everyone who was white, and people who were black were treated as animals at worst, inferior at best, and were afforded no rights whatsoever. So while I agree with your statement, you cannot simply apply it across the board when whites didn't even consider blacks people. You do realize women weren't even allowed to attend IVY league schools until 1970 and interacial marriage was illegal until the 70s. Parkchester had an open and flagrant policy of forbidding people of color until 1979.
As soon as people are TREATED equally, and have respect for EACHOTHER, only then will you be able to say "act accordingly and you will be treated accordingly." It has never been the case in our history..so why be surprised when people act differently than what you expect? And furthermore, I can't imagine having an entire society violently surpress you and basically own you as a slave, and then wonder why you are not smiling and cheery all day.
I agree with you 100%. This explains the original causes (or motivations or impetuses) behind the uncivil or detrimental behavior patterns of people of color (though it has reached a point in history where personal responsibility must be expected and emphasized on the part of each individiual). But my point (in agreement with you) is that I DO understand the etiology (i.e., the causality) of what originally started these behavior patterns on their part. That is, while I greatly detest uncivil behaviors on the part of the underclasses (well, ALL peoples for that matter . . . but I am focusing here on the minority populations -- people of color), if I were to be asked to give my opinion on "What are the uncivil behavior patterns (on the part of the underclass peoples) to be attributed to?", I would say as such:
Historically, it is an outgrowth of they, as a people, being kidnapped from their homelands and their culture and way-of-life and brought here as slaves, abused and victimized, segregated and set apart by the rest of society (i.e., white society) for so long . . . and even after slavery "officially" ended in 1865, from then up through the 1960s, they were still, for the most part, segregated from the rest of society and held back by barriers to their development and advancement by legal hurdles and by official or de-facto racism (segregated education, segregated faciiliities and public accommodations of all types, segregated workplaces, segregated transit, limitations on where they could work and what kind of work they could do, educational impediments and barriers, the prevalence of "Jim Crow", violence perpetuated against them by various elements in our society, detrimental stereotypes perpetuated against them, etc. etc. etc). The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that, after being segregated as a people for so long from the rest of mainstream society, they develop their own culture or subculture (it might be called an "anti-culture" or "counter-culture"). And it can be very very challenging to outgrow these ways of thinking and behavior patterns on both an individual and group basis . . . even after the legal and logistical barriers to the progress and advancement of people of color had "officially" been removed. After all, it has only been a relatively short time span (historically speaking) since civil rights were granted and (more or less) uniformly enforced. It may take more than the one or two generations (with a "generation" being 20 years). And changing laws and regulations (in the legal books) does not necessarily change the hearts, minds, perceptions, and attitudes of all other peoples toward them. And it understandably has affected their own sense of self-worth and self-esteem (on both an individual and collective basis) and their vision of what they can be and do with their lives and what their expectations are for themselves.
So I most certainly **DO** understand the original causes and they have my understanding and support (I'll fight with them against all forms of racism and injustice and support affirmative action, equal opportunity, et al). I do not overlook, ignore, or deny their historical and developmental circumstances that brought them to this life situation. Yet I still expect individuals to take personal responsibility for their individual choices in life . . . for they DO, in fact, have the ability and right to make choices (unlike in the historical past) and, with my strong support and the support of other good-minded, sympathetic people, should find it in themselves to rise to the occasion and be civil (i.e., to engage in what can be commonly agreed upon as civilized behavior patterns). You can't expect anything less from anyone. It should not be phrased or thought of by them as choosing to "act 'white' " (whatever that means). Human society must have a standard, universally-applicable, agreed-upon definition of what constitutes "civilized"" behavior and what constitutes "uncivilized" behavior. We can't have a coherent, workable, functioning society or civilization if we don't all agree upon the ground rules for how we will ALL conduct ourselves in our day-to-day lives. The same spoken and unspoken rules that apply to me (a Caucasian white Jewish male) applies to any and every person-of-color . . . and the same spoken and unspoken rules that apply to any and every person-of-color applies to me. I hold myself to the exact same standards and I hold all other persons to the exact same standards.
Last edited by UsAll; 01-03-2012 at 01:23 PM..
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