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311 is where Im starting. Once I get on the Coop board (Already 2 neighbors think i should do it and will vote for me, + hubby's vote, makes a lot of shares in my favor) I plan to affect change - just because they have been doing it for 20 yrs doesn't make it right, and they are breaking the co ops rules. Signs are clearly posted about loitering.
I have no intention of backing down.
First, is this "sidewalk" a part of the coop grounds or city owned property? This is a crucial point as to legality and whether any "laws" are applicable. If it is coop property then the city (and 311) cannot help you.
If the Coop/Board govern the property, you will need to look for the Board to enforce any appplicable Bylaws; or, in the abence of any applicable Bylaws, then the Board can create new Bylaws to address the issue.
Second, it is important to realize that as a 'shareholder' personally addressing the offending tenants is a fuitless exercise and likely will only exacerbate the circumstance.
Realize that in regard to the Coop, the offending rental tenants are not responsible to the Board nor Coop.
The responsible party(ies) is/are the owners of the cooperative shares representing the apartments of the offending rental tenants.
The owner(s)/shareholder(s) is/are likely the former LL/Sponsor and/or the Cooperative and/or individuals who purchased the representative shares. Any applicable Bylaws are effective toward the owner(s)/shareholder(s), NOT the tenants, NOR the Rental/Management agency.
It is important to note that the Rental/Management agency is NOT responsible to the Coop and not directly governed by the Board nor the Coop's Bylaws. So, any dealings with the Rental/Management agency will likely prove fruitless.
Any likely effective corrective action will NEED to be brought against the actual owner(s)/shareholder(s), specifically, if the Management agency is their 'agent'.
As a shareholder, you need to force the Board to action. Action WILL have a cost factor, for the Cooperative; and, if you are serious about solving the issue, ultimately there may be an individual cost factor for yourself and any other shareholders who choose to bond with you. Ultimately it may come to you having to sue the Board in order to force action.
The Board will need to act according to the Bylaws. Typically the Board can assess 'fines' upon the owner(s)/shareholder(s) of the rental apts, if the Bylaws so allow. If the fines are not paid, typically, the Board can move to foreclose.
Also, the Board can commence legal proceedings to evict the owner(s)/shareholder(s), based upon the tenant's actions. The eviction process is the ultimate weapon the the Board can wield, along with foreclosure proceedings.
In order to evict the rental tenants, the Cooperative MUST evict the owner(s)/shareholders. There is no 'direct' action the Coop can legally take against the rental tenants themselves.
The Caveate is that the rental tenants are likely governed by the Rent Controlled/Stabilization laws. Consequently, removal of the tenants and/or any action to effect their behaviour will be a long and costly affair. One in which the Board may be reluctant to undertake. In which case, you and any other interested tenants will have to sue the board.
If these are NOT rent controlled/stabilized tenants, then any proceedings will be MUCH simpler and easier, and success in resolving the issue will have a high probability.
Your specific circumstances may be unique to your Coop and its location, but such 'Board Fights' are rather common, especially in regard to 'rental tenants'. Unfortunately, litigation, in this regard, can be rather involved, lengthy and, again, costly. It also will require a certain resolve on the Board/Coop's part, as well as your own.
Of course, given the "sidewalk" is owned by the Coop, there are a number of efforts which can be applied prior to litigation. Yet, cost is always involved, and Boards can be reluctant to incur costs, particularly if the funds simply aren't available.
For example, a simple fence might be the solution. Another, ultimately, could be for the Coop to provide the funds for the owners/shareholders to 'buy out' the offending tenants. Many ways to address the circumstance, but *cost* will ALWAYS be a factor.
Jfyi, when deciding to buy in to a particular coop, person values, sensibilities, propriety and financial capabilities should *match* those of your potential co-shareholders. When they don't, it can make for a VERY unhappy living situation.
Also, it is important to know the percentage of rental tenants; the criteria the Coop imposes on rentals, and the quality of the renters.
First, is this "sidewalk" a part of the coop grounds or city owned property? This is a crucial point as to legality and whether any "laws" are applicable. If it is coop property then the city (and 311) cannot help you.
If the Coop/Board govern the property, you will need to look for the Board to enforce any appplicable Bylaws; or, in the abence of any applicable Bylaws, then the Board can create new Bylaws to address the issue.
Second, it is important to realize that as a 'shareholder' personally addressing the offending tenants is a fuitless exercise and likely will only exacerbate the circumstance.
Realize that in regard to the Coop, the offending rental tenants are not responsible to the Board nor Coop.
The responsible party(ies) is/are the owners of the cooperative shares representing the apartments of the offending rental tenants.
The owner(s)/shareholder(s) is/are likely the former LL/Sponsor and/or the Cooperative and/or individuals who purchased the representative shares. Any applicable Bylaws are effective toward the owner(s)/shareholder(s), NOT the tenants, NOR the Rental/Management agency.
It is important to note that the Rental/Management agency is NOT responsible to the Coop and not directly governed by the Board nor the Coop's Bylaws. So, any dealings with the Rental/Management agency will likely prove fruitless.
Any likely effective corrective action will NEED to be brought against the actual owner(s)/shareholder(s), specifically, if the Management agency is their 'agent'.
As a shareholder, you need to force the Board to action. Action WILL have a cost factor, for the Cooperative; and, if you are serious about solving the issue, ultimately there may be an individual cost factor for yourself and any other shareholders who choose to bond with you. Ultimately it may come to you having to sue the Board in order to force action.
The Board will need to act according to the Bylaws. Typically the Board can assess 'fines' upon the owner(s)/shareholder(s) of the rental apts, if the Bylaws so allow. If the fines are not paid, typically, the Board can move to foreclose.
Also, the Board can commence legal proceedings to evict the owner(s)/shareholder(s), based upon the tenant's actions. The eviction process is the ultimate weapon the the Board can wield, along with foreclosure proceedings.
In order to evict the rental tenants, the Cooperative MUST evict the owner(s)/shareholders. There is no 'direct' action the Coop can legally take against the rental tenants themselves.
The Caveate is that the rental tenants are likely governed by the Rent Controlled/Stabilization laws. Consequently, removal of the tenants and/or any action to effect their behaviour will be a long and costly affair. One in which the Board may be reluctant to undertake. In which case, you and any other interested tenants will have to sue the board.
If these are NOT rent controlled/stabilized tenants, then any proceedings will be MUCH simpler and easier, and success in resolving the issue will have a high probability.
Your specific circumstances may be unique to your Coop and its location, but such 'Board Fights' are rather common, especially in regard to 'rental tenants'. Unfortunately, litigation, in this regard, can be rather involved, lengthy and, again, costly. It also will require a certain resolve on the Board/Coop's part, as well as your own.
Of course, given the "sidewalk" is owned by the Coop, there are a number of efforts which can be applied prior to litigation. Yet, cost is always involved, and Boards can be reluctant to incur costs, particularly if the funds simply aren't available.
For example, a simple fence might be the solution. Another, ultimately, could be for the Coop to provide the funds for the owners/shareholders to 'buy out' the offending tenants. Many ways to address the circumstance, but *cost* will ALWAYS be a factor.
Jfyi, when deciding to buy in to a particular coop, person values, sensibilities, propriety and financial capabilities should *match* those of your potential co-shareholders. When they don't, it can make for a VERY unhappy living situation.
Also, it is important to know the percentage of rental tenants; the criteria the Coop imposes on rentals, and the quality of the renters.
Thanks for the very detailed, and frighteningly insurmountable effort to get the Oldies to walk 2 blocks to sit down.
people still sit on lawn chairs on the sidewalk? OMG, thats great. Old folks and SAHM' did this in brooklyn when I was growing up (back in the 1960s to 1970s). It meant I could play outside on the sidewalk without my own mom being there to supervise, from a very young age. It was great (there was always room to walk past, as long as you didn't mind becoming fodder for conversation) I have thought this aspect of NYC life had disappeared, but glad to hear it has not.
Wow!!!! Vic, you may have purchased your apartment, but not the areas outside your building. I am a sixty plus woman who loves the sunshine, but because of a disability, I find it nearly impossible to walk more than half a block. I have decided to sit in a small lawn chair on a side walk on West 93rd, St. I sit by myself on this wide side walk to be harrassed by doormen and tenants of the building. I have been insulted, spat upon, and abussed. I am going to fight tooth and nail for my right to sit quietly and enjoy the fresh air. The police have been called everyday and I am still a fixture. If I have it my way, this will open the door for ,other people to bring out the chairs and enjoy the air. By the way, I still work a full time job, I own a home, and I have a net worth of over $600,000. I am not a wealthy woman, but I am not a product of poverty and I am an edjucated woman. I have supported the businesses in my area for over 25 years and I am an upstanding member of the community! You are angry at the management company for not dealing with the older people who rent apartments. Why should these people have to be dealt with at all? If you want to control sidewalks, why did you not purchase a home in a gated community? I am sorry that people socializing and enjoying the air grates on you, but that is your issue. They have the right to gather peacefully.they are not breaking any laws and they are thankfully not subjected to your opinion.
Grow up! Don't you have more important things to be concerned over than a group of older people trying to enjoy their home. Yes, Vic, this is thier home rented or owned! If the sight of them offends you, close your dooors and windows; do not look! As long as they do not enter your apartment or break a law, they are not your concern.
Sorry, but in my opinion, you are the low-life. You are intollerant, selfish, and entittled!
I do not believe that the "oldies" shout at you or block you from your destination. Owning an apartment does not give you the right to dictate to others the way they should live or how they gather.
If I were one of your neighbors, I would hope for your banishment from the building. It is you who are the undesirable element in the neighborhood!
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