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I thought your username looked familiar. I think I saw some of your Dallas threads.
My spouse and I were in Dallas around the same time you were, it was our second relocation scouting trip. Yes the housing difference is earth-shattering. We were looking in Grapevine and even the crummier apartments were magnitudes better than what is offered in NYC. IT gave me a better idea why so many transplants are horrified when they see NYC apartments even though they're considered "nice!" by NYC standards.
One apartment complex we went to had a fish-stocked pond ON SITE, along with a 3 mile nature trail, a private dog run, not to mention complimentary bikes and fishing poles available at the management office. This place also had a 20 seat movie theater you could reserve for private use, and the management company threw free wine (That's Grapevine for you) and cheese socials for the residents every month. This was all in addition to the "usual" huge pool with hot tubs, community center, complimentary office space, 24 hour gym, gated perimeter, etc...
The apartment was a 2br/2ba appx 1100sf with a terrace, bedrooms were more than big enough for a queen or king bed and still have room for furniture around it. The walk in closets were almost as big as some bedrooms I've seen in NYC apartments. The kitchen was big (12X12 with an island in the middle) and it was so clean it was almost like new construction. Price: $1,100. Units were available with private garages on lower floors for a couple hundred extra.
I almost went comatose out of shock, but instead of culture shock, it was like "housing shock" plus being smacked with a ton of bricks... We're moving this summer, I'm looking forward to the housing upgrade.
WOW that's amazing! Best of luck to you in your new location, I am sure you will love it.
I just cant justify the costs of living in the city. I work right in the heart of midtown. I surely dont want to live here as well. Lived in the Lower East Side from 82-2006. I now live in a nice 500sf 1br apt in Maspeth Queens that I pay $1050 a month for AND have a backyard. I couldnt rent bedroom in the city for that much! By car I'm in the city in 15 minutes. Even faster by subway. Love it and can never see myself moving back.
I wonder if we saw the same complex. I threw up a trip report in one of my Dallas posts. I think the one that was most ridiculous in the amount of amenities it offered vs price was Austin Ranch if I remember, and it might have been in Grapevine. I was checking NW areas, also.
Sigh. If only I heard from jobs back then instead of getting calls NOW.
The place with the insane amenities I saw was the Camden Riverwalk near Grapevine Mills. I didn't see Austin Ranch but considering how many amenities all the other places had, it seems standard to have pretty sweet, cushy housing if you live in the DFW suburbs.
Sorry to hear about the job callbacks. How long did it take them to get back to you?
The place with the insane amenities I saw was the Camden Riverwalk near Grapevine Mills. I didn't see Austin Ranch but considering how many amenities all the other places had, it seems standard to have pretty sweet, cushy housing if you live in the DFW suburbs.
Sorry to hear about the job callbacks. How long did it take them to get back to you?
A month. Some were right away but were offering a lot less pay.
To the OP: Not sure what field you're in but I recall the job market being tight in Austin, however I imagine you and your wife still have connections out there, or you can open your business again.
To the OP: Not sure what field you're in but I recall the job market being tight in Austin, however I imagine you and your wife still have connections out there, or you can open your business again.
Thankfully, we're both retired now thanks to the sale of the business. I can't imagine moving AND trying to find a job at this point.
Well, I'll say I understand entirely why the rent here is what it is. Because there will always be the next person with NYC Itch waiting to pay a penny more than me for the same 87 year old, never been updated apartment. I'd charge the same (or more).
What is amazing is what you can get anywhere else in North America (not that this is news to anyone). We're looking at houses in central Austin with 3000 sf, a pool, completely upgraded, walking distance to all the entertainment areas/restaurants/shops/UT sports for literally less than half what we spend per month on rent here ($2900/mo for the housing payment on a 4/3 just north of campus). We're also looking at houses in Sonoma, CA with the exact same amenities but significantly nicer weather for the same price.
I hate to admit it, because it feels silly to say out loud, but I think I was a lot more in love with "being a New Yorker" than "New York." There is definitely a level of smug satisfaction that goes along with knowing you made it here, live at the top of the mountain, eat better, dress better, etc. And then one day you wake up and realize the only things that really matter are your spouse and your kid and it's time to stop being so selfish.
Some other things I meant to include on the original post but forgot (for people reading this, researching a move to NY):
THE WEATHER - I moved here from Texas. I grew up in West Texas, so I know what winter and snow are, but I had completely overestimated my ability to deal with 5 straight months of winter. The first winter here was my favorite season. Streets and restaurants were empty. It snowed a reasonable amount of time. I really enjoyed having to dress appropriately and not just wear t-shirts all year like back home. The second winter was hell. That was the Nonstop Snowstorm winter. You all remember it well. At first it was cute. Then it got annoying. Then you wanted to move to Florida for some reason. The third winter (this last one) was the most maddening. It didn't even snow, but it was cold and windy for 4 months straight. Need to go to the drug store? Sure, it's only 2 blocks away, but you're going to have to put 3-4 layers of clothing on, a scarf, and a hat just to get there. Now you're sweating below the neck and freezing above it. By around Day 60 of that, you start to get worn down if you're not used to it.
Totally agree. You forgot to mention the stupid rainstorms that make getting around an enormous hassle. And the rude people that knock into you with their umbrellas. And I am born and raised here in NYC, so I am used to it, but it still wears me down.
HAVING A CAR - I fought this one for a long time. One of my major reasons for moving here was to get away from car culture and do the public transportation thing. I could drink at dinner again. I didn't have to change oil, or get gas, or pay for car insurance, or deal with the stress of sitting in start/stop traffic. Plus, everyone delivers here. Yeah, well, that's cool for a good long time and 98% of the time, it suffices. Then you need to take your dog to the specialist in Queens and it costs you $47 each way for the Dog Taxi, not to mention the hour you waited in the rain for the Dog Taxi to show up to bring you back home. It's times like that you stand there thinking "we pay EXTRA for this?" What we wouldn't have given to just put the dog in the back of my old Jeep and drive back to our house.
COST OF DAILY EXPENSES - I get how expensive it must be to truck in goods from the rest of the world onto our fancy private island here, I really do. But, man. A 6-pack of crappy domestic beer is $8, minimum. The same beer that was $2.50 anywhere else. I'm not even exaggerating that. A 6-pack of decent beer is $12-$15. A dinner for the 3 of us in the neighborhood (casual) is still $90. Beef to grill myself costs more than beef that someone else already grilled at a restaurant anywhere else ($42 for a single filet mignon from the store here). And health insurance? I've never seen anything like it. We used to spend about $460/mo in Houston for a family of 3 (private insurance, not through a job). Here? We're paying $1,250/mo for the same 3 people for the worst plan available. That's for three non-smoking, not-pregnant, no-cancer people.
Totally agree again, the cost of just about everything here is astronomical and just not worth it, IMO.
SMELLS/SOUNDS - This is one I wrestled with for a long time. For years, I really appreciated the city noise and the awful smells around town. It felt "real" to me. It wasn't just a scrubbed suburb that was sanitized for my protection. Then one day you wake up and realize that it smells like an open sewer for entire blocks. And not just sometimes, but like all day long. The powerwashing of the bus stops at 11pm. The non-stop ConEd construction below us. The dogs two floors above us that are left on their terrace all day to bark at anything and everything. It all seemed so endearing for a long time. And then it stopped being endearing. I wish I could explain why.
YES!!! The smells are horrid, many streets smells like urine, or poop, or vomit, at some point or another. Or garbage. Nothing like walking to my office at 8:00 AM and seeing piles of gross garbage bags leeking some kind of nasty looking fluids of out of them. And constant car/truck exhaust. A lot of people that I know that actually live in Manhattan are sick A LOT, and I think it has to do with the lack of fresh air and/or germs EVERYWHERE.
Again, if you're thinking about moving here, DO IT. You have to. My life is much better for having done this. It's a fantastic chapter in my life.
It's definitely a great experience for a lot of people.
Great posts, very informative for people interested in coming to NYC.
i love your post and i really feel for you, it sounds like your happy in the city so i for one hate to see you go.
Sadly some people, like your wife maybe, just are not cut out to be here for years and years. I do however feel like you guys could have done much better for your money and should have tried to find a better apt but if she needs to go to be happy then it's good of you to make that sacrifice for her.
Good luck to you in your move
Good points brought up by the OP and others. I was born and raised in NYC (Brooklyn and Queens) and graduated from a local NYC law school that attracts a significant percentage of students outside NY. I marveled at their naiivete and how they bought into the hype of living in Manhattan - with the sky high rents, dirty streets, and overcrowded eateries..At some points, they thought I was "not cool" for choosing to live in the suburbs - but the fact is, my salary stretched so much more when I lived outside Manhattan.
The only way I would ever consider moving to the City would be if my income were at least $200-250K (my income alone, not as a combined HHI) and I had a 2 bedroom apt on the UES/UWS. I worked for many years on Wall Street and Midtown, commuting from my parents' house in Queens and later from my husband's home here on Long Island. I now work in Suffolk County and I can't help but when I see many of my former classmates realize how they were taken for a ride by living in Manhattan, and have nothing to show for it but Broadway Show ticket stubs, massive credit card bills, and skmpy retirement accounts.
I hope more non-NY'ers read your post and carefully consider their finances and chance in Quality of Life when they move to NYC. The streets here are NOT paved with gold.
Good points brought up by the OP and others. I was born and raised in NYC (Brooklyn and Queens) and graduated from a local NYC law school that attracts a significant percentage of students outside NY. I marveled at their naiivete and how they bought into the hype of living in Manhattan - with the sky high rents, dirty streets, and overcrowded eateries..At some points, they thought I was "not cool" for choosing to live in the suburbs - but the fact is, my salary stretched so much more when I lived outside Manhattan.
The only way I would ever consider moving to the City would be if my income were at least $200-250K (my income alone, not as a combined HHI) and I had a 2 bedroom apt on the UES/UWS. I worked for many years on Wall Street and Midtown, commuting from my parents' house in Queens and later from my husband's home here on Long Island. I now work in Suffolk County and I can't help but when I see many of my former classmates realize how they were taken for a ride by living in Manhattan, and have nothing to show for it but Broadway Show ticket stubs, massive credit card bills, and skmpy retirement accounts.
I hope more non-NY'ers read your post and carefully consider their finances and chance in Quality of Life when they move to NYC. The streets here are NOT paved with gold.
God, I could NOT agree with you more. I just don’t get it. Such a complicated life with too many people for the dazzle of Broadway tickets. It’s as if we overpay to be packed like sardines walking in gross streets. Take me home to L.I. now!
Very interesting post, OP. I can't say that I argue with much of anything you've posted. However for some, like me, I grew up around here and wouldn't *ever* want to live anywhere else in America. I could, however, move out to the suburbs which would address most of the issues you've dealt with- especially if I had a family...
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WOW that's amazing! Best of luck to you in your new location, I am sure you will love it.
I was born and raised in NYC (Brooklyn and Queens) and graduated from a local NYC law school that attracts a significant percentage of students outside NY. I marveled at their naiivete and how they bought into the hype of living in Manhattan - with the sky high rents, dirty streets, and overcrowded eateries..At some points, they thought I was "not cool" for choosing to live in the suburbs - but the fact is, my salary stretched so much more when I lived outside Manhattan.
when I see many of my former classmates realize how they were taken for a ride by living in Manhattan, and have nothing to show for it but Broadway Show ticket stubs, massive credit card bills, and skmpy retirement accounts.
