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Old 09-12-2012, 11:07 AM
 
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11KAP,

That's because I'm constantly adapting; you should too if you want to have a place in this changing world.

What are you gonna do about this sellout? People all over the world WANT to put their money here especially NYC. Must we turn them away and tell them we don't sell assets to people with lots of money? That's not how America's economy works. This is not Venezuela.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:31 AM
 
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Forest Hills Daddy I do not agree that this is happening in Europe as well...their wealth is far more equally distributed, and their economies (in general) are not built on exploitating their own country/residents. The US is a giant pyramid scheme which only works if we keep getting people coming in at the bottom aka the destitute...we cannot function without a permanent underclass.

As for China and India, the opposite is occuring. Those countries have always had the wealth concentrated among a very few families, politicians, etc, however the wealth is spreading and the middle class is exploding in these countries.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:39 AM
 
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It is happening in Europe. Just not in the same speed as it is happening in the US, though some Eurozone countries pay the price for their slowness with 20+% unemployment rates. I'm sure you're not envisioning a situation where 20+% of the population is still middle class by virtue of the welfare they get from the state.

In India and China, the gap between haves and have nots is widening. Even the so-called new middle class have no reliable health insurance, higher education financing and social security in old age. And with inflation rates in those countries rising higher than the interest rates on bank deposits, those middle class people are bound to feel poor in due time.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: USA
8,011 posts, read 11,428,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
11KAP,

That's because I'm constantly adapting; you should too if you want to have a place in this changing world.

What are you gonna do about this sellout? People all over the world WANT to put their money here especially NYC. Must we turn them away and tell them we don't sell assets to people with lots of money? That's not how America's economy works. This is not Venezuela.

I will be alright. America might not tho in the long run,
because you can't play both sides of the fence and
still maintain liberty. This is not China, and people
are going to stand up against economic inequality.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:56 AM
 
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The cause of the 20% unemployment has nothing to do with concentration of wealth..neither does our current economic problems derive from concentration of wealth...it was all due to greed and deception from Wall St leading up to 2008...nothing more, nothing less.

The gap with the haves and have nots has always been widening in those countries, and it is nothing new. What is new, and what is the true economic indicator for those countries, is the rapid expansion of the middle class consumer. You are cherry picking a relatively insignificant aspect of the economic structure of China and India in comparison to the recent and rapid explosion of the middle class. Feeling poor and being poor are 2 different things....and while there is no doubt that they still have a long way to go in social safety nets, healthcare, safety, regulations, etc, the rapid expansion of the middle class and all of the 1st world luxuries and basics they require are driving the creation of safety nets, healthcare, regulations, etc...and the even more wealthy Chinese and Indians are not hindering that process, they are advancing it because it is generating more wealth for them. Not so here...
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: North NJ by way of Brooklyn, NY
2,628 posts, read 4,618,657 times
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Getting back on track before everyone derails the thread.....

I'm not that surprised, considering Brooklyn has been the new Manhattan for quite some time now, about a decade as "THE" place to move to if you're coming to NYC. Which to this day still cracks me up because years ago you couldn't pay people to move to some of the areas they are moving to now. (Bushwick, Bed Stuy anyone?) So of course with more demand, goes increasing rent prices.

If anyone thinks the newcomers are not moving further south and east into Brooklyn, they are sadly mistaken. I'm starting to see them further and further down on the subway lines every day.

All I know is I'm giving this 2 more years before I seriously get out of here. My rent is cheap at the moment, and I don't have to worry about it increasing 20% or some insane number. But the COL here compared to other places is beginning to get crazy.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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Sobro,

It has everything to do with the unemployment rate in Europe. Take France for example. It is so hard to fire workers (because laws are designed to protect jobs and middle class lives) that companies are reluctant to invest and create jobs. So the remaining 20% rely on government benefits while the rest of the employed are slow to adapt to a global economy. You can't separate the unemployment rate from these governments efforts to preserve the wealth gap.

In China and India - you are also cherry picking a few aspects of their economic structure. Sure there are jobs and people have disposable income to spend on consummables. But if you work in a bank in those countries you will see for yourself that the #1 cause of "middle class" people slipping back into poverty are (1) people getting sick and having no health coverage and (2) people entering retirement with insufficient savings. Something that can make an average person poor in due time is not insignificant. Many agencies have already reported on this phenomenon.

It's as simple as this - as long as you have a few people making so many times more than the majority, those few people are going to start pushing up the prices of goods, services and assets, causing inflation to the point that the ones who make less can less afford to buy the same things. It's happening in Europe, China, India and the US.

At the end of the day, the whole have-have not dynamic is a global phenomenon. It just happens faster in the US.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:33 PM
 
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Not surprised I was watching a show on HGTV a few weeks ago and saw a young couple looking for apartments in Brooklyn. They bought a 3 bedroom apartment in Park Slope for 1.5 million. It was a nice doorman building but the rooms were very small.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:07 PM
 
1,418 posts, read 2,552,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
Sobro,

It has everything to do with the unemployment rate in Europe. Take France for example. It is so hard to fire workers (because laws are designed to protect jobs and middle class lives) that companies are reluctant to invest and create jobs. So the remaining 20% rely on government benefits while the rest of the employed are slow to adapt to a global economy. You can't separate the unemployment rate from these governments efforts to preserve the wealth gap.

In China and India - you are also cherry picking a few aspects of their economic structure. Sure there are jobs and people have disposable income to spend on consummables. But if you work in a bank in those countries you will see for yourself that the #1 cause of "middle class" people slipping back into poverty are (1) people getting sick and having no health coverage and (2) people entering retirement with insufficient savings. Something that can make an average person poor in due time is not insignificant. Many agencies have already reported on this phenomenon.

It's as simple as this - as long as you have a few people making so many times more than the majority, those few people are going to start pushing up the prices of goods, services and assets, causing inflation to the point that the ones who make less can less afford to buy the same things. It's happening in Europe, China, India and the US.

At the end of the day, the whole have-have not dynamic is a global phenomenon. It just happens faster in the US.

Damn you are pretty informed. That is spot on. Healthcare eats up the saving s of the Middle class in China and India. I know ppl that spent tons of money and even sold property and land to pay medical bills. My parents still have more faith in America's economy than any other.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:19 PM
 
7,296 posts, read 11,889,916 times
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/\/\

S.O. used to be a consumer/SMB banker in Asia and health issues is the most common reason why otherwise responsible individuals default on personal and business loans and drop their standard of living. Insufficient savings at retirement is the other. When people see Asians buying SUVs, 3BR houses, condos and branded clothes, they assume that all is well but the reality is that they're not shielded from personal crisis.
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