U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
Old 10-14-2007, 05:30 AM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300


I've got a beef here.

Over and over I see people looking for affordable rentals on this forum. Over and over people tell them not to look into certain areas because they are "too dangerous."

I have lived in NYC for fifty years, and have learned firsthand that NYC goes in cycles. It is pretty clear to me that the cycle now is towards eliminating a lot of low-cost housing by any means necessary. Not all housing will be snatched up by the rich, esp in newly emerging areas, but you may have to act fairly quickly.

NYC's rental market is very tight. Developments are starting to go up in areas where realtors have invested mucho bucks to completely renovate developments and in some cases offer very reasonable prices--even rent stabilized apts.

Someone started a thread about Flatbush, asking about a development called Flatbush Gardens. Of course several posters tried to scare her off at once, talking about how dangerous the area was.

But if you look at the link and read between the lines, I think it would be foolilsh not to take a look.

Apparently Flatbush Gardens was a somewhat run down development. It has been completely renovated with hardwood floors and other amenities and the photos look stunning.

They are offering rent stabilized apts, utilities included. If you click on the management link and the application requirements link, you will get a better idea of the zietgiest, if you will.

I posted a thread yesterday about the homeless being turned away from city shelters. If you do a search for the Pinnacle Group, you will see that they and other realtors are buying entire buildings in Uptown Manhattan AND the Bronx, pushing the old tenants out, renovating, and then offering more market rate rents.

But until an area is completely "gentrified" and "discovered," rents will likely be within the reach of many middle class folks. This gentrification is taking place more and more quickly.

If you let the naysayers here scare you away with their 1970's era descriptions of bad areas, you will lose out.

People who live in the Bronx, for example, and tell you how dangerous it is are sometimes young kids who "chill" in the hood. Others do not live there and are going by the sometimes outdated image of these often rapidly transitioning areas.

But if you are a law abiding citizen, and you don't wander around too late at night, don't hang with the boyz on the corners, are not part of a gang, and not a drug dealer, I maintain that in most cases you have very little to fear in many areas others consider sketchy. Of course you have to have some common sense and street smarts, but that goes for any area of NYC.

Just a night or two ago, there was a stabbing outside a Chelsea, manhattan nightclub. Not long ago, one or two women were kidnapped after accepting a ride from a bouncer in a downtown club. About a year or so ago, a woman was killed on the Lower East Side outside a bar.

These areas are all considered safe as pie, but the problem is that people moving in do not seem to realize that no matter how safe the area, you still can't be too cocky about your safety. Crime happens in every borough, and every state, even the "hinterlands."

People will tell you how terrible the schools are in NYC, but where do all the mass school shootings take place? Right in the heartland.

People will tell you to move to other cities. How about Philadelphia (also known as Killadelphia) where there is an average of one murder a day, and people can buy guns as easily as a pack of gum?

Do you research...this forum can be helpful, but even native NY'ers do not know all areas of the city the way they think they do.

The tide is turning, and the middle class will likely have their day again here. I do not approve of many of the tactics being used to oust the poor, but this is the way things go in this city where housing is tight, people are clamoring to get in, and areas are being revitalized right and left.

Just had to get that off my chest. Here's a link to a Bushwick Gardens. Open houses every day. Check it out for yourself--don't take anyone else's word for anything. You have to make these choices yourself. Don't just go with the herd mentality!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Old 10-14-2007, 05:32 AM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300
Sorry, here's the link. Check out the application requirements and the Management link.

Flatbush Gardens Rental Apartments, Brooklyn NY - Homepage (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-14-2007, 10:10 AM
31,652 posts, read 45,380,949 times
Reputation: 13346
well the problem is people come on here and always ask for affordable and safe neighborhoods
and when they say safe, they mean virtually no crime because they're most likely from a suburban out-of-state area, with no experience of urban living.
for people like that, nyc is a big culture shock. and if they dont have street smarts even living in an average crime area will seem like hell to them.
so i think people have it in their best interests to guide them to relatively peaceful neighborhoods.
but even though this is my personal opinion, i always say "go see for yourself" at the end of my recommendations.
because at the end of the day, they're asking for other people's experiences, and it might not be the same as theirs once they get there.
if you're a native new yorker, or have lived here for some number of years, it will be easier for you to make a transition into certain neighborhoods than somebody who has never lived here before because we know how to move. meaning we're aware of our surroundings, and nyc is not a foreign place for us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-14-2007, 10:27 AM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300
This is true in some cases, but in others I have seen people who have recently moved to "dicey" areas or walked around in them and can't quite understand the dramatic scenario set up by some folks here. Others are so frightened outta their wits that they may change their mind about living here at all, or if they've already moved in will be so terrified that it may actually increase their chances of being victimized.

On the other hand, the Manhattan examples I listed usually go something like this:

Newish residents or visitors who think all of Manhattan is 100 percent safe, day or night. They go to a bar, stay til 4 am, and meet up with trouble. Never saw it coming because they figure they're safe because the area is full of young whites.

There's a great book called "The Gift of Fear." The main premise is that fear can be a gift if we use it judiciously, but can be paralyzing if we do not. Street smarts are essential here, whether you are rich or poor, black or white--and IMO that includes knowing what is going on in your own backyard, right now, not five or ten years ago.

But it frankly amazes me to see so many long time New Yorkers who still can't see the way the wind is blowing. How many formerly crappy areas that "no one in their right mind" would move into have to change to yuppie paradises before folks realize that the tide has definitely turned? The NYC housing market is still very healthy due to perpetually high demand. Those who hang onto their outdated views will likely be complaining bitterly about the yuppie invasion and their ever increasing rents all too soon, and wonder why the middle class "can never catch a break."

Best move, IMO--either get an outer borough coop while you can still afford it or try to hang onto or get into some of the new rent stabilized renovated apts before they all get grabbed up--and/or turn coop! Invest in the city...it will likely be a very worthwhile move (barring an end of the world scenario, in which case we're all f****d anyway).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 01:58 PM
2,532 posts, read 6,755,718 times
Reputation: 1113
Elvira: Who is this thread for? People that want to come here? We already have how many millions? already, and they are expecting how many millions? more by 2010. Why do you feel you have to sell certain neighborhoods. Sooner or later more people will be pushed into all these neighborhoods anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 05:48 PM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300
I think it is also for current residents who may be living in substandard spaces.

I'm not trying to sell anything, really. I'm not a realtor. Like most here, I genuinely want to help. But you are right, DAS--this forum is in many ways counter to my own personal ethics and philosophy.

But I see many residents who don't realize they, too, have options for a better life here. As far as the newcomers, despite any feedback here, many will have to sink or swim. That's life in the big city. Not everyone is cut out for it. If you want the goodies, you have to pay the price one way or another--and money is sometimes the least of it.

Many here also fervently wish for a white influx. If you scare these folks away, you are defeating your own intentions. I do not want or need them. I'm more inclined to tell them to stay away. But so few natives or newcomers will check out he Bronx that it is a moot point. Many of my posts speak to other areas of the city.

Where the heck is Hustla when you really need him? But seriously, you guys keep the threads alive, and that's a good thing. Not important to "win" at all. Respectful debate is much more fun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 06:07 PM
Location: Queens
842 posts, read 4,266,924 times
Reputation: 288
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 06:12 PM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300
For the second time:

She lived in Brooklyn for, like nine years.

She was asking about an area she knew from back in the day, to see if it had gotten better. A lot can happen here in 7 years--it's as "magical" as the fairy princess in a "Disney" production waving her wand of gold, if you get my drift.

I think it would be a more interesting thiread if more people had the courtesy to read all posts in the thread before commenting, but as they say, people in hell want icewater, so what can ya do...

You folks are not even bothering to read and digest the OP's initial inquiry. You were so busy assuming she was a total newcomer that the obvious info about her Brooklyn creds were totally ignored.

It's like, someone coming to live here = someone who has no knowlege or nyc, or has never lived here.

As I say, best to treat each person as an individual. We all have different DNA for a reason.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 06:13 PM
Location: Queens
842 posts, read 4,266,924 times
Reputation: 288
But I would like to add that sometimes people can be wrong about a neighborhood. For example: parkchester. There are good parts and bad parts. Co-op city. etc. As long as both sides don't exaggerate, we can all get along
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-15-2007, 07:07 PM
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,538,027 times
Reputation: 300
Somehow I doubt that...and why would we all want to get along? That would be tres boring, mon ami.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.

Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top