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State ten good reasons why. And what about those who either cannot afford cars (which will never be cheaper than transit due to the fact that car owners must pay for insurance every month while insurance bills do not exist for those who use transit and do not own a car, like myself, and by the way I have no intention of ever owning a car) or do not wish to own cars?
Cars are much more responsible for much more pollution and many more deaths and injuries than trains and buses are. So because I do not want to be on the road dealing with all the motorists who speed and violate traffic laws like it is going out of style (including double parking, and forget about law enforcement because 'enforcement' is a completely unsatisfactory band-aid solution to these problems), I, who only uses the transit system, almost never drives, and never uses car services or dollar vans or dollar cabs, should pay congestion taxes when my modes of transportation are not causing nearly as much environmental damage and do not pose nearly as much of a threat to human life as cars do?
So, that's the vision of the anti transit/pro car (insert offensive word here)?! I need some popcorn...and justice since I was insulted by one of the anti transit/pro car (insert offensive word here) once again.
And all this talk about rights and freedoms...now I have to pay congestion taxes because I insist on using modes of transportation that pollute the environment less than cars and are less deadly and injurious than cars? All this talk about me paying congestion taxes when I deal with crowds, more frequent stops, and (when riding buses) motorists who double park and encroach on bus lanes while I ride trains and buses, whereas motorists have all their comfort on demand with climate control and radios that are under their control and the various other luxuries they have that transit users do not? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Anyway, I am patiently waiting for those ten (or more) good reasons. I am confident that I will be able to refute all of them.
Furthermore, we just had a fare hike on Sunday. It has been said before that if congestion pricing went through, it would be politically easier to increase transit fares. So us transit users would wind up sharing the extra burden anyway...if you can even call it a burden. I need some more popcorn.
Last edited by detroitdiesel; 03-06-2013 at 10:05 PM..
A toll for in and out of the CBD, good idea. BUT, how is the city going to collect tolls? Set up check points? Toll booths at every intersections on 59th street?
Overhead electronic EZ-Pass Readers (See Henry Hudson Bridge). Those without EZ-Pass must either register their vehicle for the day via internet/telephone or face a fine in addition to the congestion charge via camera enforcement.
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Originally Posted by nybbler
I thought it was pretty self-explanatory. Kiddo is pushing a "congestion pricing" plan which really amounts to "stick it to car users". I'm suggesting that if congestion pricing is good for car users, it's good for subway users as well.
Oh please, if you don't like it, stay out of the double CBD south of Central Park. Congestion pricing even benefits drivers, it reduces congestion on the road for those that must drive. This also encourages car pooling. The East River Bridges will not be free for much longer, time is running out. The current charging scheme does not work.
The MTA must contain costs dramatically before we can even began to think of new tax revenue, from congestion pricing.
The MTA should find away to get rid of token booth clerks, for starters. Any abuses from the unions must be dealt with. As NYCHA is leasing out its properties at market rate, the MTA must do more of the same with its properties.
If the MTA became more fiscally responsible, and if the money was going to projects like a full length Second Avenue Subway in Manhattan as well as transit expansion in the outer boroughs, I think it would get a lot more public support. I would like to see the abandoned Rockaway Beach LIRR tracks connected to the Queens Boulevard line, so people from the Rockaways could have a direct route to the rest of Queens. There are other abandoned ROWs that could be activated in the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, and Staten Island. I myself want to get a car later this year, but I would still be cool with congestion pricing, provided the money actually be used to expand and improve service.
Bloomberg is a billionaire, and whenever he does something like this he is going to get a certain amount of hate. A less rich mayor maybe able to push through congestion pricing and a lot more market rate development or even demolition of the housing projects. We will see.
Getting rid of token booth clerks would create huge problems in emergency situations and would make it easier for people to get mugged in the subway. This has already happened in places in the system in which clerks were removed. Come on.
MTA is one of the most efficient transit agencies in the world and has been keeping fares artificially low forever while NYS governors have been robbing it and treating mass transit like a stepchild forever. This is why we get marginal bus improvements instead of significant bus improvements and/or subway extensions in the outer boroughs. Elected officials are at greater fault for these things than MTA because everybody (not referring to you specifically) wants to badmouth MTA while acting like they (badmouthers) can do no wrong, instead of understanding that MTA is trying to do the best with the insultingly low transit funds it is allotted in the NYS budget. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US TRANSIT USERS!
Yes, MTA can do a better job minimizing costs, but the fact of the matter is that elected officials and others (like the NYS comptroller) criticize MTA continuously without doing much to help it or its users..this is more the case for NYCTA than it is for MNRR or LIRR. This happens because everybody and their mother stigmatizes mass transit while glorifying the private vehicle, often for political reasons. The City of New York loses because the rest of the State of New York consists mostly of persons who could care less about mass transit and see their personal vehicles as their shrines while doing next to nothing to give back to the City of New York for its economic contributions to the rest of the state (jobs, for one thing, as many commute to NYC to work), which were made possible mostly by the NYC Subway system.
MTA is flat broke and needs all the help it can get. The city is only as good as its transit system. And as far as paying for things one does not use, where are the objections to paying education taxes despite not having children enrolled in public schools? I could come come up with similar questions for similar situations.
The token booth clerk is not going to save you if you get mugged or attacked. They don't carry weapons. They are not going to leave their booth at all.
There's no actual proof that they increase safety all that much.
As far as train expansions in the outer boroughs are concerned, considering that the East Side Access and the Second Avenue Subway Cost many billions, there's only two ways to really fund transit expansion.
Either with a massive influx of funds from Washington and/or Albany......
Or the city could sell revenue backed bonds, and fund them with tax revenue from some source. That's what Bloomberg really wanted to do with congestion pricing revenue. The city would have had a huge bond sale (increasing the debt) and the debt would have been paid back by the funds gathered from the new tolls.
New York State's contribution towards both the Second Avenue Subway and the East Side Access was a big bond sale that the state sold (raised money from the debt markets, that have to be paid back of course). Bloomberg sold 2.1 Billion dollars work of tax revenue backed bonds to pay for the extension of the 7 train to 34th street and 11th avenue.
As for NYC Transit, the key word is PUBLIC transportation. Of course, fares are kept low. You have people who work part time at places like McDonalds, they too need to be able to afford to get to work. I'm sure someone working part time in the food industry appreciates the low fares, as do other populations of the working poor.
Getting mugged or attacked is not the only thing that can happen and there are other situations in which they have greater influence. Can you give examples of situations in which they did nothing about muggings or attacks that happened in their stations/on their platforms?
Interesting point about revenue backed bonds. I need to find out more about those.
The Outer Borough Projects which have been delayed range from 20 Million for Bus lanes and stations to 500 million for New Rail lines. Manhattan is very expensive to build in , but that does not apply to the outer boroughs or Urban Jersey which has few lines similar to the SAS but only costing 2-3 billion.
If you want to reduce traffic in the city, look no further than the yellow and black cabs. On any given day it looks like a swarm of bees on 7th Ave and Broadway. Their much more of a nuscience than any of the other vehicles that I've come across.
Oh please, if you don't like it, stay out of the double CBD south of Central Park.
Since Bloomberg has not died and appointed you King of New York yet, I need not abide by your ultimatum.
There is no "double CBD". There are two separate CBDs separated by several miles of city. I happen to work in between the two, and while I normally take transit, I do not appreciate attempts to sock it to me on those few occasions when I do not.
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Congestion pricing even benefits drivers, it reduces congestion on the road for those that must drive. This also encourages car pooling. The East River Bridges will not be free for much longer, time is running out. The current charging scheme does not work.
Indeed it does not; it under-charges transit users.
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