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While there has never been a crime free time period, I'd say things went downhill in NYC because of Mayors Wagney, Lindsay, and Robert Moses. In that time frame, a lot of federal dollars were coming into NYC. So they built a number of housing projects, and in that era the city had easy welfare. That turned previously functional neighborhoods into slums as underclass people moved to NYC in those days to get on welfare. Not just previously white neighborhoods, but neighborhoods that were black like Harlem and Bedstuy became much worse. Along with the welfare money, you had white flight and disinvestment in these areas.
Robert Moses was never Mayor, but he had more power than most Mayors, he even swooned presidents and NYS governors. If you visit areas with housing projects and just use your enamored curiosity in Mott Haven, Harlem, LES, Brownsville and just wonder what used to be here before they built these slummish housing projects? Tenements that used to be their which housed much of the working poor in NYC. Hell even in my area Mott Haven, I came across old timers who used to live in the area tell me things that seem to occur to this day. I realized its an never ending cycle, one group leaves it in a dump for the next group to filter in.
A link to Bronx slums circa 1950s. Maybe Webster Av Guy version of the Bronx is ST James Park was probably a white utopia, I don't know wasn't born then. But most Bronxites who lived in the Bronx during the 1950s regardless of race were happy to leave that Borough.
The housing projects were far worse than the tenements they replaced. You had massive, concentrated poverty in them, at a time when white flight and urban disinvestment took a lot of money and business out of town.
I've known Blacks who lived in housing developments like Lefrak City tell me, originally, when it was mostly middle class whites, it was nice. In order to settle a discrimination lawsuit, they made it a lot easier to get in Lefrak (the lawsuit said that basically head Blacks and Hispanics moving in to higher standards). So Lefrak began taking in people on Section 8. As time went by, it got worse and worse. The whites fled, and Lefrak became privately owned housing projects. At one point it was so bad the buildings stank because these trashy bums pissed and crapped in the buildings. I saw and smelled that myself when visiting people I knew in Lefrak. It was horrible.
Massive concentrations of people on welfare made things much worse, as did white flight. Actually, did you read the link from Gothamist that you posted?
"A few years ago the Village Voice took a look at the South Bronx area (known as America's worst slum), recalling: "Robert Moses slammed his fist into the neighborhood in the 1940s and 1950s, 'clearing the slums,' stacking the displaced in spiritless public housing towers, and sealing them behind a rampart of expressways: the Bruckner to the east and the Major Deegan to the south and west." And that's what's happening in the photos above.
As residents fled the area, so did blue-collar jobs, which caused poverty and crime to take over. The paper noted at the time, "Mott Haven became the South Bronx of infamy, and remained so until the drug and gang wars finally began to burn out in the early 1990s."
The link is saying that after the public housing towers went up, residents fled the area, along with blue collar jobs. Meaning an already poor area became much worse, and according to this poverty and crime took over.
The housing projects were far worse than the tenements they replaced. You had massive, concentrated poverty in them, at a time when white flight and urban disinvestment took a lot of money and business out of town.
I've known Blacks who lived in housing developments like Lefrak City tell me, originally, when it was mostly middle class whites, it was nice. In order to settle a discrimination lawsuit, they made it a lot easier to get in Lefrak (the lawsuit said that basically head Blacks and Hispanics moving in to higher standards). So Lefrak began taking in people on Section 8. As time went by, it got worse and worse. The whites fled, and Lefrak became privately owned housing projects. At one point it was so bad the buildings stank because these trashy bums pissed and crapped in the buildings. I saw and smelled that myself when visiting people I knew in Lefrak. It was horrible.
Massive concentrations of people on welfare made things much worse, as did white flight. Actually, did you read the link from Gothamist that you posted?
"A few years ago the Village Voice took a look at the South Bronx area (known as America's worst slum), recalling: "Robert Moses slammed his fist into the neighborhood in the 1940s and 1950s, 'clearing the slums,' stacking the displaced in spiritless public housing towers, and sealing them behind a rampart of expressways: the Bruckner to the east and the Major Deegan to the south and west." And that's what's happening in the photos above.
As residents fled the area, so did blue-collar jobs, which caused poverty and crime to take over. The paper noted at the time, "Mott Haven became the South Bronx of infamy, and remained so until the drug and gang wars finally began to burn out in the early 1990s."
The link is saying that after the public housing towers went up, residents fled the area, along with blue collar jobs. Meaning an already poor area became much worse, and according to this poverty and crime took over.
Dude South Bronx has been horrible since the late 1920s, I did research on it back in college. I even had to go to the court house and a library to dig up information that was not available on the internet. South Bronx only cooled down during post Prohibition and World War 2 period and picked up right after the war was over thanks to the babyboom. Welfare programs instituted by the Johnson administrations great society made things worse for the area residents by collecting money instead of not being productive citizens, lets not forget the Cross Bronx Expressway and even worse the dismantling of the Third Avenue El which went through my neighborhood which I never knew until some years ago. The area was already poor even before the projects came in and I knew of old time residents who fled when parents had opportunities to purchase suburban homes. Traditionally the Bronx has been a working class borough and will probably remain so for some or even many years to come.
Dude South Bronx has been horrible since the late 1920s, I did research on it back in college. I even had to go to the court house and a library to dig up information that was not available on the internet. South Bronx only cooled down during post Prohibition and World War 2 period and picked up right after the war was over thanks to the babyboom. Welfare programs instituted by the Johnson administrations great society made things worse for the area residents by collecting money instead of not being productive citizens, lets not forget the Cross Bronx Expressway and even worse the dismantling of the Third Avenue El which went through my neighborhood which I never knew until some years ago. The area was already poor even before the projects came in and I knew of old time residents who fled when parents had opportunities to purchase suburban homes. Traditionally the Bronx has been a working class borough and will probably remain so for some or even many years to come.
Areas like the Lower East Side, Chelsea, and Hells Kitchen also people typically fled if they made enough money. Of course who wanted to always live in an apartment if they could get a house somewhere? Mind you, in those days you had undeveloped land near NYC (which is not the case these days). The ghetto parts of Manhattan also got worse as well during the easy welfare period. Of course they got gentrified now and the poor have been pushed out of places like Hells Kitchen and Chelsea. The other big game change is suburban commutes are pretty expensive. You either have to drive, (which can be costly and time consuming depending on the distance) or spend a lot of money on commuter rails. So that has made inner city neighborhoods a lot more attractive to people who work in the city.
That still doesn't change the fact that Moses made horrible mistakes with the housing projects, because once the feds starting hacking away with their budget, conditions within can only get worse as the city will not bother with repairs with no federal money coming in. They've already let some buildings decay to the point where they had to bulldoze them (4 in Brownsville).
Riverdale is an area of Bronx County, that is a geographical fact that is hard to dispute *shrug*. Whether someone from there considers themself from the Bronx is really irrelevant. Bronx is a borough, a county if you will. Since when did a handful of sketchy areas represent an entire county? Here in Texas, we have good areas and not so good areas, yet everyone is grouped under the umbrella "Houston, TX", "Austin, TX". I think only Queens has it broken down by area. The correct post office address is "Bronx NY, 104....", though they will still deliver regardless as long as the zip code is correct.
Not everyone is loaded. Riverdale has your wealthy, upper, and regular middle classed folks. For example, I am in no way "loaded", but I could still afford to live there. Riverdale just has a higher proponderence of high earners than many other neighborhoods. I believe part of this is due to topography. Whereas a lot of the rest of the borough is urban, Riverdale has a suburban look and feel. It has cliffs that overlook water. People are drawn to areas that have hills, parks, views, and water.
Most of Riverdale is upper middle class. You are right that some of Riverdale is just middle class. That is mainly North Riverdale and the areas not in the hills along Broadway, but even those areas are nice with Van Cortlandt Park across the street. Southern Riverdale is mainly upper middle class and wealthier than Northern Riverdale, and Fieldston and the areas along Palisades and Independence Avenue are especially wealthy. In short even the more ordinary middle class areas of Riverdale can be pricey depending on the location. Even though the area along Broadway isn't as splashy, it is fairly safe and safety always counts for something.
There are a few reasons why Riverdale sets itself aside from the rest of the borough and some of it is its isolation and the other is certainly money. Someone who is paying an Upper East Side rent or mortgage and lives on the Upper East Side would not want to be associated with the next neighborhood (East Harlem).
Most of Riverdale is upper middle class. You are right that some of Riverdale is just middle class. That is mainly North Riverdale and the areas not in the hills along Broadway, but even those areas are nice with Van Cortlandt Park across the street. Southern Riverdale is mainly upper middle class and wealthier than Northern Riverdale, and Fieldston and the areas along Palisades and Independence Avenue are especially wealthy. In short even the more ordinary middle class areas of Riverdale can be pricey depending on the location. Even though the area along Broadway isn't as splashy, it is fairly safe and safety always counts for something.
There are a few reasons why Riverdale sets itself aside from the rest of the borough and some of it is its isolation and the other is certainly money. Someone who is paying an Upper East Side rent or mortgage and lives on the Upper East Side would not want to be associated with the next neighborhood (East Harlem).
Good point. Sad part is, desirable Bronx neighborhoods such as Riverdale take up a very small portion of land from the Bronx. It's like a grain of sand in the beach. I just wish they were more "Riverdale" neighborhoods in the Bronx to BALANCE out the overwhelming poverty stronghold neighborhoods. I can count on ONE hand how many desirable neighbors they are in the Bronx. HOWEVER, I would need my hands and toes to count the amount of "hoods" the Bronx has. It's disportionate, hence why the Bronx as a whole is considered undesirable. And why I always advocate for INCOME DIVERSITY in the Bronx. After all, diversity is suppose to be a good thing right?
Good point. Sad part is, desirable Bronx neighborhoods such as Riverdale take up a very small portion of land from the Bronx. It's like a grain of sand in the beach. I just wish they were more "Riverdale" neighborhoods in the Bronx to BALANCE out the overwhelming poverty stronghold neighborhoods. I can count on ONE hand how many desirable neighbors they are in the Bronx. HOWEVER, I would need my hands and toes to count the amount of "hoods" the Bronx has. It's disportionate, hence why the Bronx as a whole is considered undesirable. And why I always advocate for INCOME DIVERSITY in the Bronx. After all, diversity is suppose to be a good thing right?
It will get there. You finally have big investment in the Bronx, the Ice Rink, the Armory, a new beer brewery being built in the South Bronx, Fresh Direct moving to the South Bronx, new hotels being opened up in the Bronx, the Fordham road business incubator project between the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University, New York Botantical Gardens, etc. You also have major coverage in the media from the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Daily news about buying Bronx real estate.
Also, I think some of the Bronx's reputation is exaggerated. Plenty of people in the Bronx WORK. The trains are crowded during rush hours. I see a lot of cars parked all over the North Bronx, so obviously someone has money to buy cars. I've had friends from the Bronx at Cornell. All of the boroughs have well off areas and crappy areas.
Most of Riverdale is upper middle class. You are right that some of Riverdale is just middle class. That is mainly North Riverdale and the areas not in the hills along Broadway, but even those areas are nice with Van Cortlandt Park across the street. Southern Riverdale is mainly upper middle class and wealthier than Northern Riverdale, and Fieldston and the areas along Palisades and Independence Avenue are especially wealthy. In short even the more ordinary middle class areas of Riverdale can be pricey depending on the location. Even though the area along Broadway isn't as splashy, it is fairly safe and safety always counts for something.
There are a few reasons why Riverdale sets itself aside from the rest of the borough and some of it is its isolation and the other is certainly money. Someone who is paying an Upper East Side rent or mortgage and lives on the Upper East Side would not want to be associated with the next neighborhood (East Harlem).
What kills me is that they call it Riverdale....seems to me to be a deliberate effort to disassociate it with the rest of the Bronx. You are absolutely right....the fact that residents there have money and lets not forget white skin....both are the reasons that people like to PRETEND THAT RIVERDALE IS NOT A PART OF THE BRONX!
Good point. Sad part is, desirable Bronx neighborhoods such as Riverdale take up a very small portion of land from the Bronx. It's like a grain of sand in the beach. I just wish they were more "Riverdale" neighborhoods in the Bronx to BALANCE out the overwhelming poverty stronghold neighborhoods. I can count on ONE hand how many desirable neighbors they are in the Bronx. HOWEVER, I would need my hands and toes to count the amount of "hoods" the Bronx has. It's disportionate, hence why the Bronx as a whole is considered undesirable. And why I always advocate for INCOME DIVERSITY in the Bronx. After all, diversity is suppose to be a good thing right?
Dude Riverdale is huge area of the Bronx but it is very secluded. Some of Riverdale prosperity spills over to near by areas helping to preserve the quality of life for some Bronxites.
It will get there. You finally have big investment in the Bronx, the Ice Rink, the Armory, a new beer brewery being built in the South Bronx, Fresh Direct moving to the South Bronx, new hotels being opened up in the Bronx, the Fordham road business incubator project between the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University, New York Botantical Gardens, etc. You also have major coverage in the media from the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Daily news about buying Bronx real estate.
Also, I think some of the Bronx's reputation is exaggerated. Plenty of people in the Bronx WORK. The trains are crowded during rush hours. I see a lot of cars parked all over the North Bronx, so obviously someone has money to buy cars. I've had friends from the Bronx at Cornell. All of the boroughs have well off areas and crappy areas.
I wonder if we are going to see Dominican Ice skaters and Hockey players since the area is traditionally Dominican! This would be cool!
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