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Would you support true BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) in NYC?
BRT could be used as an in between, until we get new rail rapid transit lines and extensions. Afterward, they could still be used as supplemental or rerouted.
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Bus rapid transit (BRT, BRTS) is a high performance public transport bus service which aims to combine bus lanes with high-quality bus 'stations', vehicles, amenities and branding to achieve the performance and quality of a light rail or metro system, with the flexibility, cost and simplicity of a bus system.[1]
The first BRT system was the Rede Integrada de Transporte in Curitiba, Brazil (translated as 'Integrated Transportation Network') which entered service in 1974, which inspired the respected TransMilenio in Bogotá, Colombia (opened 2000) and subsequently many other systems around the world.
In Manhattan there are already buses that run on "limited" service meaning they skip stops (like express buses) and use only the dedicated bus lanes. So how would the BRT improve on that?
In Manhattan there are already buses that run on "limited" service meaning they skip stops (like express buses) and use only the dedicated bus lanes. So how would the BRT improve on that?
True BRT would include:
•Physically separated lanes, meaning buses will not be stuck in traffic (Current SBS uses designated lanes, which are often blocked by double parked vehicles and/or turning traffic).
•Traffic light syncing. Buses should only stop at designated stops (major speed increase).
•Raised/bulbed platforms, permits faster boarding (Buses should load as fast as the subway).
•Offboard payment, already in effect among SBS routes. (In order to prevent fare dodging, those that pay should enter enclosed areas as done in other cities).
Basically SBS is BRT light. The DOT would like to eventually implement true BRT but the community boards have been an issue.
Please watch the video to get an idea how truly efficient BRT operates.
BRT should not replace rail rapid transit (subway) because it has way less capacity, is slower, and requires more money per rider to maintain; however it would provide vital connections for neighborhoods currently underserved. Imagine hopping on a BRT bus in Northeast Queens and entering Midtown in 45 minutes. Definitely possible with protected lanes and traffic light sync.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 06-13-2013 at 05:47 PM..
Whether I support it or not depends on where it is implemented and the costs.
I would absolutely not want BRT on Route 9A. It's congested enough as it is; taking away a traffic lane for BRT would only make it worse. There aren't enough potential users to warrant it.
Running it up and down the east side is a good idea.
I don't particularly see the benefit of lines running across boroughs. There are enough subway routes to connect to Manhattan that it doesn't warrant taking 2 lanes on a bridge or tunnel.
Perhaps implementing it on cross-town routes would be the most beneficial.
I would absolutely not want BRT on Route 9A. It's congested enough as it is; taking away a traffic lane for BRT would only make it worse. There aren't enough potential users to warrant it.
The whole point of BRT is to get people out of cars and on to transit. The DOT/MTA is also studying the feasibility of utilizing expressway shoulders for buses. There is HUGE demand for this service.
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I don't particularly see the benefit of lines running across boroughs. There are enough subway routes to connect to Manhattan that it doesn't warrant taking 2 lanes on a bridge or tunnel.
Perhaps implementing it on cross-town routes would be the most beneficial.
The 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, E, and L are all running over capacity during peak hours. Other lines are close. Some areas are underserved completely (See East Queens).
A BRT network would primarily connect or serve areas either underserved by rapid transit or over capacity. It would create new connections.
BRT would definitely warrant space on bridges and tunnels. The number of riders by far justifies it. A bus can carry many times the number of people then the equivalent amount of private autos in the same space.
Add congestion pricing/East River tolls and you will significantly reduce the traffic on these bridges. People will opt for BRT instead.
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I'll tell you right now, NYC can go two directions:
We can either toll the East River Bridges, create congestion zones, and new mass transportation options to reach the Manhattan CBD (BRT, new rapid transit lines and extensions) while upzoning commercial construction in the other boroughs to promote job growth and residential near/mixed with that to reduce commute times.
OR
We can do nothing, and watch the city stagnate as all subway lines max capacity while drivers sit in traffic 24/7. If nothing is done now, don't be surprised when a Staten Island/East Queens to Midtown trip takes 2 hours via private automobile. It'll come sooner then you think.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 06-13-2013 at 06:24 PM..
I don't think BRT will be beneficial to people on Route 9A. I would think many are coming from outside of the city and would be driving anyway.
I see what you're trying to say about subway lines running over capacity, but if I had a choice, I'd still take an overcrowded subway over getting out of the subway system and on to a bus (and possibly needing to get on to another subway). Seems like we disagree on how many riders there would be on a BRT system over a bridge/tunnel.
I don't think BRT will be beneficial to people on Route 9A. I would think many are coming from outside of the city and would be driving anyway.
I see what you're trying to say about subway lines running over capacity, but if I had a choice, I'd still take an overcrowded subway over getting out of the subway system and on to a bus (and possibly needing to get on to another subway). Seems like we disagree on how many riders there would be on a BRT system over a bridge/tunnel.
If we can create a BRT network in NYC, we can reduce congestion. By linking areas under served by rapid transit, we can reduce the number of personal auto commutes. Of course many suburban people will opt to drive, but any reduction helps.
BRT should be a one seat ride. You jump on at Canarsie and you ride it into East Midtown (no traffic, no lights, one stop per neighborhood). It's supposed to operate like a subway. Hence bus rapid transit.
Since BRT is faster and cheaper to build out the RT, we can have lines criss-crossing the boroughs too. Stopping at major destinations. All in a short period of time.
Eventually new RT/Subway lines and extensions will come but they take much more time due to money, NIMBYs and politics. So this is intern and can later be supplemental.
Yes a bus can carry more people per square foot than a private automobile, but how many buses are you going to be running? One every 5 or 10 minutes? It's wasted space the other 4 minutes and 55 seconds. This can be absorbed on streets and avenues, but it's too valuable on bridges and tunnels.
I'm not saying we do nothing. What I'm saying is BRT is only beneficial in certain situations and shouldn't be implemented willy nilly or otherwise it'll do more harm than good.
If we can create a BRT network in NYC, we can reduce driving. Of course many suburban people will opt to drive, but any reduction helps.
BRT will reduce driving in general, but not in every instance. 9A is one of those instances.
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BRT should be a one seat ride. You jump on at Canarsie and you ride it into East Midtown (no traffic, no lights, one stop per neighborhood). It's supposed to operate like a subway. Hence bus rapid transit.
Sounds like an express bus, but with a dedicated lane and signal timing. If there's a way to implement this at the cost of a subway ride, it will be competitive. If it's going to be the cost of an express bus and serves a neighborhood that already has subway service (even if it's over capacity), I can't see there being enough riders to justify dedicating a lane at a choke point (river crossings).
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but the routes need to be studied carefully before implementation.
Yes a bus can carry more people per square foot than a private automobile, but how many buses are you going to be running? One every 5 or 10 minutes? It's wasted space the other 4 minutes and 55 seconds. This can be absorbed on streets and avenues, but it's too valuable on bridges and tunnels.
I'm not saying we do nothing. What I'm saying is BRT is only beneficial in certain situations and shouldn't be implemented willy nilly or otherwise it'll do more harm than good.
BRT is Bus Rapid Transit, meaning that bus service will be frequent. Headways are typically 10-20 seconds internationally.
I'm not suggesting "willy-nilly" implementation. I want 100% legit BRT.
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Originally Posted by bklynkenny
BRT will reduce driving in general, but not in every instance. 9A is one of those instances.
One of many. There is no one size fits all solution but BRT would definitely impact positively. Even by reducing overall congestion.
BTW, 9A will especially benefit from BRT once Hudson Yards nears completion. That area has special zoning which reduced parking maximums even further.
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Sounds like an express bus, but with a dedicated lane and signal timing. If there's a way to implement this at the cost of a subway ride, it will be competitive. If it's going to be the cost of an express bus and serves a neighborhood that already has subway service (even if it's over capacity), I can't see there being enough riders to justify dedicating a lane at a choke point (river crossings).
I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but the routes need to be studied carefully before implementation.
It should cost the same as a subway. It's bus rapid transit. Rapid transit on road instead of rail.
Express bus service would be replaced by this. This is faster and has higher capacity due to more frequent service.
Please watch the provided video in the initial post to see just how this is implemented.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 06-13-2013 at 07:33 PM..
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