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Some poor kids are VERY smart, believe it or not, and don't need endless high cost tutoring to get them good test results.
I heard that the entrance exams will test above grade-level knowledge that most students are not taught at regular school time yet, therefore private tutoring or prep school will prepare the students specifically based on the content and range of such exams. In this way an average kid will stand out in this selection process. This situation is different from tutoring for state test or SAT where all students have been taught the information beforehand therefore if you are willing to work harder to score better, you deserve it.
I heard that the entrance exams will test above grade-level knowledge that most students are not taught at regular school time yet, therefore private tutoring or prep school will prepare the students specifically based on the content and range of such exams. In this way an average kid will stand out in this selection process. This situation is different from tutoring for state test or SAT where all students have been taught the information beforehand therefore if you are willing to work harder to score better, you deserve it.
you haven't said anything more specific than "test designers can work harder"
how - exactly - can you design a question that is impossible to study for?
look, unless they've changed the test significantly since the 90s, i'm 100% sure it's possible to score highly on these tests without prep
yes, students with prep will have an advantage. but that's life, and i'd wager the other life advantages rich kids have over poor kids are more helpful than test prep
how specifically do you recommend these tests be changed?
how specifically do you recommend these tests be changed?
To make it more subjective so that applicants who can cry about life's struggles and portray themselves to have "overcome" challenges will have a better chance of getting in than those who study hard and get good grades in school.
To make it more subjective so that applicants who can cry about life's struggles and portray themselves to have "overcome" challenges will have a better chance of getting in than those who study hard and get good grades in school.
But there isn't enough room for them. Do you then measure how loud they cry? What if certain races tend to cry harder would that make the new criteria racists? What if certain groups then practice crying everyday and get the moaning to the perfect tone do you switch to measuring something else? Maybe they should create specialized schools for kids that want to go to specialized schools, but can't get in. But that wouldn't satisfy their parents who think that they're kids are smart and perfect, but can't prove it.
you haven't said anything more specific than "test designers can work harder"
how - exactly - can you design a question that is impossible to study for?
look, unless they've changed the test significantly since the 90s, i'm 100% sure it's possible to score highly on these tests without prep
yes, students with prep will have an advantage. but that's life, and i'd wager the other life advantages rich kids have over poor kids are more helpful than test prep
how specifically do you recommend these tests be changed?
my expertise is not exactly in designing objective and fair test papers...but i could give it some good thoughts if the schools are willing to change it
This is not much about rich and poor issue as I see it. Putting it in other words, the entrance exam seems more like selecting better students from 9th (privately tutored) and 8th graders (non-tutored) using the same 9th grade level test papers. I do not know how many students tested for Hunter in your days. It is like 2,500 or so students testing for around 300 spots in recent years. So being tutored or not being tutored makes a huge difference in this situation.
But there isn't enough room for them. Do you then measure how loud they cry? What if certain races tend to cry harder would that make the new criteria racists? What if certain groups then practice crying everyday and get the moaning to the perfect tone do you switch to measuring something else? Maybe they should create specialized schools for kids that want to go to specialized schools, but can't get in. But that wouldn't satisfy their parents who think that they're kids are smart and perfect, but can't prove it.
I wonder if we can discuss any issue on NYC forum without relating to races...
If you fit the situation into any single race context, the problem is still the same problem. As mentioned above, the problem derives from the test content that may not have been taught to all students (based on what I understood as "above grade level"), which creates a big effect on being tutored vs. not being tutored.
That is also true for the SAT, NMAT, LSAT, GMAT, GRE - not all test content is taught and those who can afford Kaplan have an advantage. So be it until someone can think of a more objective way to assess applications.
I wonder if we can discuss any issue on NYC forum without relating to races...
If you fit the situation into any single race context, the problem is still the same problem. As mentioned above, the problem derives from the test content that may not have been taught to all students (based on what I understood as "above grade level"), which creates a big effect on being tutored vs. not being tutored.
There has to be a way to see who will succeed and the test is it. Not every student is capable. Some students test above grade level all through school those are the ones who can take the test cold and get in. An average student can get in with the tutoring. Do you think tutoring is unfair or a form of cheating?
I wonder if we can discuss any issue on NYC forum without relating to races...
If you fit the situation into any single race context, the problem is still the same problem. As mentioned above, the problem derives from the test content that may not have been taught to all students (based on what I understood as "above grade level"), which creates a big effect on being tutored vs. not being tutored.
I agree with you, but that's what getting into those schools is all about. Academic performance on one exam is the name of the game. I recall back in the days, 90s, if you didn't take 9th grade math during 7th grade you may not do really well at least on the math portion. This is because the tests had materials taught in 9th grade math. But with the internet nowadays, I don't see much of an excuse that someone can't learn that. Also if your junior high didn't let you take advance math that also says a lot about one's academic ability. There will always be those that are very smart, but couldn't get in for legitimate reasons, but there are overwhelmingly many more that get in because they deserve it. Not getting in is not the end of the world.
There has to be a way to see who will succeed and the test is it. Not every student is capable. Some students test above grade level all through school those are the ones who can take the test cold and get in. An average student can get in with the tutoring. Do you think tutoring is unfair or a form of cheating?
The tutored students are taught with new concepts in the textbook that are to be taught to the rest of the students in the next grade level based on the past test content.
If all students have been taught the same concepts and then some of them are willing to pay for additional tutoring to better understand the concepts to prepare for the test, that is a different story, which applies to the tests that FHD listed above.
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