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Unions are not more efficient. They serve a purpose, but efficiency is not one of them. It would be in their best interest to be as efficient as possible, but as we speak that is a conflict of interest to them. Unions need to be run more as successful independent operating businesses before we'll notice the increase of efficiency with the services they provide.
Why? Efficiency doesn't mean **** to the worker unless they are benefiting from that increased efficiency. Hell look at the massive gains in productivity from the workforce in the past 30 years and the fact that they see zero benefits from that increased productivity.
You want to see increased efficiency? Make it worthwhile for the worker to be efficient.
Really? In non-union locations, workers don't start work at 7 or 8 AM? Rebar is magically fabricated during the night?
As if non-union workers are somehow more efficient. I've watched construction crews down south, in "right-to-work" states. Never seen slower work. If they do try to speed things up, the quality drops.
You missed my point entirely. There is no reason for every singe person to have their shift start at 7 AM when they are dependent on certain procedures to be done before they can start working. People who can start right away should be scheduled at 7 AM and those who can't start until the rebar is set should start when that is finished. The whole point of a staggered shift is to ensure workers are actually getting paid to work.
By your logic its ok for someone to work only 3 hours and spend the other 5 waiting for things to be done.
Your comparison to a single instance of a non-union doesn't justify the current behavior of unions in NYC that ultimately drive up the cost of building.
No, I did not. I simply asked, whether you have any actual knowledge of construction workers in non-union locations working a staggered schedule, starting work in the afternoon. I've never seen or heard of this practice. You blame unions for a standard work day. Standard, as in everywhere, union or not.
I also know, that when the mud starts being poured, it doesn't stop until that portion of the job is completed. It's not as if the workers put in 3 hours & go home.
No, I did not. I simply asked, whether you have any actual knowledge of construction workers in non-union locations working a staggered schedule, starting work in the afternoon. I've never seen or heard of this practice. You blame unions for a standard work day. Standard, as in everywhere, union or not.
I also know, that when the mud starts being poured, it doesn't stop until that portion of the job is completed. It's not as if the workers put in 3 hours & go home.
Whether a non-union construction site works on staggered shifts is irrelevant to the inefficiency of unions.
Staggered work schedules have been fought against by unions so that is why it was brought up in this thread.
Why would a union fight against a staggered work schedule if it makes more sense to get a project done efficiently?
If a union job site started exactly at 7 AM and everyone was working productively there would be nothing to argue here but that doesn't happen.
Why? Efficiency doesn't mean **** to the worker unless they are benefiting from that increased efficiency. Hell look at the massive gains in productivity from the workforce in the past 30 years and the fact that they see zero benefits from that increased productivity.
You want to see increased efficiency? Make it worthwhile for the worker to be efficient.
over-conscientiousness - victim is too willing to give manipulator the benefit of the doubt and see their side of things in which they blame the victim.
over-intellectualization - victim tries too hard to understand and believes the manipulator has some understandable reason to be hurtful.
Some of the people here are overly conscientious and overly intellectualize things. There's no reason for the worker to worry about increased efficiency. That's the job of the OWNERS and MANAGERS. Obviously the workers and the owners or managers have different agendas. Each side rationally should get the best deal they can.
What idiot willingly works for less money and longer hours so the company has higher profits? The above definitions are taking from wikipedia's article on psychological manipulation. Over-conscientiousness and over-intellectualization are two characteristics that manipulators exploit.
The manipulation is that right wingers attempt to make working class people feel guilty about wanting higher pay, decent working conditions, or doing anything that could actually lead to social mobility or a comfortable lifestyle. Basically everyone except the CEOs should work for the minimum wage till they die, and if you disagree, you're a bad person according to this bull**** manipulation.
Why? Efficiency doesn't mean **** to the worker unless they are benefiting from that increased efficiency. Hell look at the massive gains in productivity from the workforce in the past 30 years and the fact that they see zero benefits from that increased productivity.
You want to see increased efficiency? Make it worthwhile for the worker to be efficient.
They'll make more money with increased efficiency. They would have more clients to serve and be able to bill out more work. The gains in productivity has to do with technology advances. If the unions developed them, they could of made money off of them. Instead they wait for the client to develop the technologies with a greater intent to make the labor redundant.
over-conscientiousness - victim is too willing to give manipulator the benefit of the doubt and see their side of things in which they blame the victim.
over-intellectualization - victim tries too hard to understand and believes the manipulator has some understandable reason to be hurtful.
Some of the people here are overly conscientious and overly intellectualize things. There's no reason for the worker to worry about increased efficiency. That's the job of the OWNERS and MANAGERS. Obviously the workers and the owners or managers have different agendas. Each side rationally should get the best deal they can.
What idiot willingly works for less money and longer hours so the company has higher profits? The above definitions are taking from wikipedia's article on psychological manipulation. Over-conscientiousness and over-intellectualization are two characteristics that manipulators exploit.
The manipulation is that right wingers attempt to make working class people feel guilty about wanting higher pay, decent working conditions, or doing anything that could actually lead to social mobility or a comfortable lifestyle. Basically everyone except the CEOs should work for the minimum wage till they die, and if you disagree, you're a bad person according to this bull**** manipulation.
Let the next ***** fall for this nonsense.
Yes, the union MANAGERS should indeed be just as interested in marketing the workers current skill set and training them for an evolving World as much as they are concerned about their compensation and benefits. I'm not even so sure that union management is so concerned about the workplace safety of staff until there is a lawsuit to be won or an increase to the cost of insurance.
They'll make more money with increased efficiency. They would have more clients to serve and be able to bill out more work. The gains in productivity has to do with technology advances. If the unions developed them, they could of made money off of them. Instead they wait for the client to develop the technologies with a greater intent to make the labor redundant.
That's the thing they won't. And they haven't for the last 30 years. Some of the gain is definitely from technological gains but a ton of it is from cutting peoples jobs so one person is doing the same job as three people. The only area where you would see that efficiency translated into higher wages or more money is non-hourly non-scarce contract work which is far from the norm for jobs. For the average worker increases in efficiency mean nothing more than more money in the corporations pocket and the increased chance that next year they will be doing two peoples jobs as they make their coworkers redundant.
That's the thing they won't. And they haven't for the last 30 years. Some of the gain is definitely from technological gains but a ton of it is from cutting peoples jobs so one person is doing the same job as three people. The only area where you would see that efficiency translated into higher wages or more money is non-hourly non-scarce contract work which is far from the norm for jobs. For the average worker increases in efficiency mean nothing more than more money in the corporations pocket and the increased chance that next year they will be doing two peoples jobs as they make their coworkers redundant.
Why won't they? Is it asking too much from the union reps? Maybe they need to be replaced then. I think unions should be run more like a business. They might be more profitable that way and be able to do more for those they support and for the others they serve.
Why won't they? Is it asking too much from the union reps? Maybe they need to be replaced then. I think unions should be run more like a business. They might be more profitable that way and be able to do more for those they support and for the others they serve.
The union is not supposed to be profitable. It's supposed to defend the work interest of it's employees and administer things such as benefits. Of course it has to have money coming in, but unions are NON PROFIT entities.
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