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If you have a city that proactively attracts 50 million tourists each year, it is a disgrace that this is the option being pursued. Getting from manhattan, your option is to either haul your stuff on trains, transfers, etc which is pretty insane or private transportation (cabs, uber) that can take hours. Is it just impossible to have a disney like monorail run from manhattan across to LGA / JFK?
The 'greatest city in the world' the options should not be a $50 cab that takes over 2 hours during rush hour or taking an air train to the lirr and then transferring to the 7 at the NQR station or whatever craziness this is.
That's what happens when you have New Yorkers fight everything that is proposed in their neighborhood. Good luck building that direct route from Manhattan to the airports while going through a bunch of NIMBY neighborhoods. You won't get very far.
I can see building the Airtrain along the GCP to LGA from the N train, but where would they have space to put the AirTrain terminal at in Astoria?
There were 2 proposals there:
1. Just extend the N train itself through Astoria Blvd (original old plan for the N line) with the terminal being in LGA. This will be 1-seat ride with no transfers with heavy luggage. But its more expensive since you're running a subway train and not a monorail.
2. Push the AirTrain from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd station all the way North to the water and go along 19th avenue to LGA. 19th avenue in Astoria is not residential, but just warehouses and parking lots.
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The 7 train is a better idea because then you could expand the AirTrain down the Van Wyck to Jamaica, and then you automatically connect two of the (arguably) largest civic and commercial centers of the borough.
If you gonna do that, might as well run the AirTrain to Jackson Heights instead. That will still be convenient for most people, and you can use some of that TriboroX right of way afterwards for extension.
Grow up and deal with it. You have no ability to push or finance train construction, so you'll take what's given.
No, I'll take the already-existing buses whether they build this or not, as will the VAST majority of people who use the airport. Cuomo's plan is setting half a billion dollars on fire. Fortunately it's being widely ridiculed.
And they are already hotels in the area. A convention center with hotels is also under construction in the area. This helps develop Corona (Astoria is already gentrified). As for the complainers, they will get what they can take as they really have no choice or influence in the matter.
Considering the fact that the Willets Point area is isolated from the rest of Corona by the GCP, I question how much it will really influence development in Corona proper.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Astoria residents successfully blocked an extension of the N train to LGA. Cuomo is taking the past of least resistance, the alternate path Astoria residents and stakeholders put forth when they were opposing the N train extension.
Except that this opposition happened a good 15-20 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Grow up and deal with it. You have no ability to push or finance train construction, so you'll take what's given. People from all around the city take either the E to Jamaica or the A to Ozone Park, where they transfer to the Airtrain and that will be much further than taking the 7 to Corona to transfer to the Airtrain.
A lot of people in that part of Queens and neighboring Nassau use the 7 train or the Port Washington LIRR. For those in Midtown Manhattan it is simple to take the 7 train to Corona.
So if you're staying by 23rd Street or 57th Street, it's "simple" to take the 7 to Corona?
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Originally Posted by nei
So complains about a project that seems like a waste is immature?
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Originally Posted by G-Dale
JFK is in Jamaica, so that AirTrain connects that airport to Jamaica Center. LGA is in Flushing, so that AirTrain will connect that airport to Downtown Flushing.
Astoria is not in Flushing. Astoria is only convenient for those that live in Astoria, LIC or Manhattan. Flushing in general is probably seeing more development than anywhere else in the city. Queens is leading the city in permits, and if you check them, the majority probably have a 113 zip code. Its not always about Manhattan or Brooklyn. If you can afford the rent there, you can afford to take a cab.
So we're going to send it there just because it happens to have the same postal service designation?
First of all, the stop is at Willets Point, not Flushing/Main Street. That's a huge difference. You have to either cross a creek on foot (not happening with luggage) or make another transfer. Matter of fact, that's even worse than just taking the Q48 bus straight from the airport to Flushing.
And Astoria, LIC, and (especially) Manhattan are a big chunk of LGA's customer base.
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Originally Posted by G-Dale
Taking the express 7 to Willets Point followed by the AirTrain will be faster than having to connect to a bus from anywhere, unless taking an SBS from Harlem.
Except that the 7 only serves the areas along 42nd Street (and the Hudson Yards stop once that opens up). Whereas the E, F, M, and R cover a much greater swath of Manhattan and the city in general.
The Q70 serves Woodside and Jackson Heights and then jumps right onto the BQE to go straight to the airport. So you're saying it's quicker for an LIRR rider living in say, Mineola to take the LIRR over to Woodside, and then take the 7 to Willets Point for the AirTrain, rather than just taking the LIRR to the Q70 directly? And you're also saying that it's quicker for somebody staying at a hotel in Chelsea to take the F to Bryant Park for the 7 to Willets Point for the AirTrain, over just taking the F to Jackson Heights for the Q70? Even coming directly from Bryant Park or Times Square, it's quicker to take the bus from Jackson Heights instead of the AirTrain from Willets Point.
Why would you even say that when the travel time table was posted a page ago in the article? To anybody living to the west of LGA (95% of NYC population) there is no point in making this crazy loop to Flushing if they wanna go to LGA. Thats like making the JFK AirTrain go all the way to Nassau County on Long Island just to loop back.
Here is that table again, in red is this Willets Point airtrain and in black current routes:
I do not believe the chart. I think it is false and was created for bias reasoning. Willets Point is not that far from LGA. And it lines up perfectly with the terminals. Ever go to a Met game and see how low the planes fly over the stadium? Ever think that maybe they can bring ferry service back to Willets Point? The ferry was much more pleasurable than taking any bus or any subway for that matter.
I do not believe the chart. I think it is false and was created for bias reasoning. Willets Point is not that far from LGA.
Go open up Google maps and take a look at a map. In order to get to Willets Point from anywhere in that graphic you are taking a huge loop, skipping past LGA and then double-backing back. This is fairly obvious to anybody with a rudimentary understanding of NYC geography. Yes, Willets Points is close to LGA, but its on the wrong side. Its like going from downtown Manhattan to Midtown through Brooklyn... yes theoretically you can do it... but why the f*** would anyone loop that way. Unless this Willets Point AirTrain is an instant teleportation device, if you are coming from anywhere to the west of the LGA your route will be slower.
Considering the fact that the Willets Point area is isolated from the rest of Corona by the GCP, I question how much it will really influence development in Corona proper.
Except that this opposition happened a good 15-20 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
So if you're staying by 23rd Street or 57th Street, it's "simple" to take the 7 to Corona?
So we're going to send it there just because it happens to have the same postal service designation?
First of all, the stop is at Willets Point, not Flushing/Main Street. That's a huge difference. You have to either cross a creek on foot (not happening with luggage) or make another transfer. Matter of fact, that's even worse than just taking the Q48 bus straight from the airport to Flushing.
And Astoria, LIC, and (especially) Manhattan are a big chunk of LGA's customer base.
Except that the 7 only serves the areas along 42nd Street (and the Hudson Yards stop once that opens up). Whereas the E, F, M, and R cover a much greater swath of Manhattan and the city in general.
The Q70 serves Woodside and Jackson Heights and then jumps right onto the BQE to go straight to the airport. So you're saying it's quicker for an LIRR rider living in say, Mineola to take the LIRR over to Woodside, and then take the 7 to Willets Point for the AirTrain, rather than just taking the LIRR to the Q70 directly? And you're also saying that it's quicker for somebody staying at a hotel in Chelsea to take the F to Bryant Park for the 7 to Willets Point for the AirTrain, over just taking the F to Jackson Heights for the Q70? Even coming directly from Bryant Park or Times Square, it's quicker to take the bus from Jackson Heights instead of the AirTrain from Willets Point.
To answer your questions in order, yes, yes, no and yes.
And that no will be come a yes once the two AirTrains get connected.
Last edited by ShirlMastic Beach; 01-22-2015 at 01:51 PM..
Go open up Google maps and take a look at a map. In order to get to Willets Point from anywhere in that graphic you are taking a huge loop, skipping past LGA and then double-backing back. This is fairly obvious to anybody with a rudimentary understanding of NYC geography. Yes, Willets Points is close to LGA, but its on the wrong side. Its like going from downtown Manhattan to Midtown through Brooklyn... yes theoretically you can do it... but why the f*** would anyone loop that way. Unless this Willets Point AirTrain is an instant teleportation device, if you are coming from anywhere to the west of the LGA your route will be slower.
It is nothing like going through Brooklyn to get to Midtown. It is more like taking a train 2 more stops so you do not have to be on a bus.
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A convention center with hotels is also under construction in the area. This helps develop Corona (Astoria is already gentrified). As for the complainers, they will get what they can take as they really have no choice or influence in the matter.
