The Fall of Throggs Neck (Carmel, Pelham: real estate, foreclosures, rentals)
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That's the story of the house I'm living in right now.
The company I'm with is shifting me to work in DC next year, so I'm not sure if moving to live somewhere else for a year is worth the hassle. Just out of curiosity, in your opinion is this a process that eventually reverses itself, or this is area relegated to an unfortunate demise?
Hard to say.It could go either way.I think there are neighborhoods in Eastern Queens that went through such a decline back in the 70's and 80' s but then stabilized and turned around. Overall I think the prognosis for most of The Bronx and most of NYC is quite good because it seems the trend is for poorer people to be continually pushed further and further out,even completely out of the city and declined neighborhoods being reclaimed.
As I said earlier I think one of the challenges for Throg's Neck is it's remoteness from subway lines,something that used to be considerd an asset.People interested in the return to the cities phenomenon generally want easy access to rapid transit.
That said,Throg's Neck is still a pretty good area by any NYC standard. You might be a little over sensitive to whatever is going on.
Hard to say.It could go either way.I think there are neighborhoods in Eastern Queens that went through such a decline back in the 70's and 80' s but then stabilized and turned around. Overall I think the prognosis for most of The Bronx and most of NYC is quite good because it seems the trend is for poorer people to be continually pushed further and further out,even completely out of the city and declined neighborhoods being reclaimed.
As I said earlier I think one of the challenges for Throg's Neck is it's remoteness from subway lines,something that used to be considerd an asset.People interested in the return to the cities phenomenon generally want easy access to rapid transit.
Thanks for your expertise on this. I feel like such remoteness is mitigated by the express buses, but that service has deteriorated so much there were news articles on it earlier this year. Supposedly Councilman Vacca said he would do something about it but no one's seen any changes yet.
I wonder if the proposed reopening of the ferry would further alleviate the percieved remoteness?
It's an old story that has been played out in countless NYC white ethnic neighborhoods.Kids who grew up there are all cops ,teachers and firemen who left the city when they got married and then when the parents die they keep the house,which is paid off and has low taxes, and rent it out for astronomical rents to section 8 people.In most cases the taxes are paid with one or two months rent and the rest is gravy.
I agree with your general observation but these inherited properties are usually only rented out for the length of period of time for children X, Y and Z to settle the estate. The house almost always is sold within 1 to 3 years after mom passes (the mother usually survives the father).
The majority of private homes purchased in Throggs Neck over the last 25 years have been by Puerto Ricans. I don't live there but I'm pretty familiar with the area (I was a lifeguard @ Silver Beach) and these are my observations. I also see some Dominicans but it seems like mostly Puerto Ricans. I remember when the neighborhood was 85% Italian and some Irish and other white (non "ethnic").
Anyway, these buyers are good people with good jobs and usually come from places like Parkchester, Soundview, etc., etc..
Many are business owners (auto and body shops, restaurants) or work for the MTA or like jobs. Unfortunately, as I wrote earlier, there's almost always a serious bad apple apple in the family. Most times, they don't even start out living there. They've got no place else to go when they get out the stir and a gracious, well meaning but naive step dad or uncle or natural father takers them in.
That's when the crime wave begins…lol Pitbulls and lowered Civics are a bad sign. And, because it's a nicer area to hang out than say 180th and 3rd Ave., most of his homies (usually gang members) will come to his house to hang, especially in the summer.
Are you the person who mentioned "Block Busting"? I haven't heard that expression in years but I'm old enough to remember that plague. I think it's a relic of the 1970's but does it really still go on in New York City? That was more of a "blacks moving in" and "white flight" thing. I don't see American blacks taking over any areas of NYC anymore.
I think the last place where this really occurred was Canarsie and some parts of the 47th Precinct in the Bronx (and, parts of Queens like Belrose).
Thanks for your expertise on this. I feel like such remoteness is mitigated by the express buses, but that service has deteriorated so much there were news articles on it earlier this year. Supposedly Councilman Vacca said he would do something about it but no one's seen any changes yet.
I wonder if the proposed reopening of the ferry would further alleviate the percieved remoteness?
Ferry would be a really good thing and all the waterfront areas will always be a very stabilizing influence.Throg's Neck does have a lot going for it.The changes might be disconcerting but I really don't see it sinking too low or very fast.
Also plenty of hispanics who can no longer afford the south Bronx are slowly moving into area. But i dont believe throgs neck is going down hill.
In what NYC world do you live in where one group of people can no longer afford to live in a certain part of town so they move to a part they can afford and bring the environment of the neighborhood UP instead of down? What world does this exist in because those factors never result in an improved neighborhood in NYC. Based on what was stated in the OP, yes, Throgs Neck is going down hill.
If there were Blacks who could no longer afford the south Bronx (which by the way is ground zero for GHETTO LIFE in BX) moving into Throgs Neck and those things started happening that the OP stated, would that qualify as going down hill in your neighborhood standard index measurements??
It seems that you're also very familiar with what is going on in the area as well. The story you described has played out in two of the houses nearby, and Puerto Ricans have purchased both houses. One is a very nice family, while the other brings nothing but trouble, to include said lowered Honda Civic (literally) and questionable friends who party until early morning on the weekdays (which makes me question whether they are gainfully employed). However, they do have an aggressive German Shepard rather than a pit bull.
I always liked Throggs Neck. In the 1980's, it was a literal oasis in the desert.
bluedog2 is 100% correct about the common denominator for the areas of New York City which survived the literal destruction of so many good neighborhoods and it was the subway. Save for Manhattan, having a subway run through your neighborhood was a death sentence for your neighborhood. This was exacerbated by having a concentration of apartment buildings near your local subway line. Very few areas could survive a subway and apartment buildings. Pelham and Sunnyside come to mind and there are certainly others.
Ironically, the subway today has the exact opposite effect. The first thing Caleb and Molly before they move to NYC is bust out a subway map. I suppose that was the first thing XXXX and YYYY did when they came to NYC in the 1950's and 1960's but the difference is they didn't have a job lined up. Oh, and a rent guarantee and paid credit cards...
It's an old story that has been played out in countless NYC white ethnic neighborhoods.Kids who grew up there are all cops ,teachers and firemen who left the city when they got married and then when the parents die they keep the house,which is paid off and has low taxes, and rent it out for astronomical rents to section 8 people.In most cases the taxes are paid with one or two months rent and the rest is gravy.
Yes, and unfortunately most Black and Hispanics (section 8 in NYC) do not take care of the home nor conduct themselves in their neighborhoods the way the White ethnic groups did. It always follow the same trend. There are always a few good Black families /good Hispanics families but they are so outnumbered by the riff-raff that hang out on the street/stoop/bodega or allow their children and teens to all times of the day and night that they (the good Blacks/Browns) stay buried inside their homes unless they're leaving for work, church, errands. Good neighborhoods go bad when it changes from White to Black/Brown and that's the truth. I wish it wasn't the truth but the proof is in the pudding.
OP, sell your house now and move to another majority White neighborhood if you want peace and quiet, an absence of random fights on your street, no more vicious anti-social dogs being paraded around the neighborhood, and no more mail theft. That is your only hope because the way your neighborhood is going, things will not improve until gentrification happens in Throgs Neck in the year 2065. That's too late to do you any good. God bless.
I agree with your general observation but these inherited properties are usually only rented out for the length of period of time for children X, Y and Z to settle the estate. The house almost always is sold within 1 to 3 years after mom passes (the mother usually survives the father).
The majority of private homes purchased in Throggs Neck over the last 25 years have been by Puerto Ricans. I don't live there but I'm pretty familiar with the area (I was a lifeguard @ Silver Beach) and these are my observations. I also see some Dominicans but it seems like mostly Puerto Ricans. I remember when the neighborhood was 85% Italian and some Irish and other white (non "ethnic").
Anyway, these buyers are good people with good jobs and usually come from places like Parkchester, Soundview, etc., etc..
Many are business owners (auto and body shops, restaurants) or work for the MTA or like jobs. Unfortunately, as I wrote earlier, there's almost always a serious bad apple apple in the family. Most times, they don't even start out living there. They've got no place else to go when they get out the stir and a gracious, well meaning but naive step dad or uncle or natural father takers them in.
That's when the crime wave begins…lol Pitbulls and lowered Civics are a bad sign. And, because it's a nicer area to hang out than say 180th and 3rd Ave., most of his homies (usually gang members) will come to his house to hang, especially in the summer.
Are you the person who mentioned "Block Busting"? I haven't heard that expression in years but I'm old enough to remember that plague. I think it's a relic of the 1970's but does it really still go on in New York City? That was more of a "blacks moving in" and "white flight" thing. I don't see American blacks taking over any areas of NYC anymore.
I think the last place where this really occurred was Canarsie and some parts of the 47th Precinct in the Bronx (and, parts of Queens like Belrose).
I think there is block busting going on The Bronx today in Woodlawn,Pelham Bay, Lower Morris Park, Van Nest and in Throg's Neck. I just don't think it's a coincidence that as the demographic is shifting in some of these last white ethnic strongholds in the city the neighborhoods are absolutely plastered with the "we buy any house quick for cash " signs on every pole in the neighborhood.In some ways,the signs themselves could be viewed as menacing and promoting fear.I don't see those signs in the more stable areas. Always seems to be the one's that are transitioning.
It doesn't have to have anything to do with blacks moving in anywhere . It's just about scaring white people into selling their houses for less than they are worth by installing fear that some "other " group is invading. The invaders don't have to be black they can be Puerto Rican,Asian , whatever.
Maybe you're right in that I'm overly sensitive to what I've encountered in the past year. The vast majority of my friends live in Manhattan, as do my coworkers, and I've gotten an idea for them that what I encounter on a daily basis isn't normal. But again, I'm comparing apples to oranges here.
I just wish my first year and a half here wasn't so nice so I didn't become spoiled and set high expectations for my time here. Ah well.
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Um...duh
