$15.00/hour Min Wage? This is what will happen...

[Bon-Sama]

Originally Posted by Justw8

But no one has ever answered the question to what a LIVING WAGE is.

A single mother with 4 kids will need a different LIVING WAGE than a single woman with no kids.

Does family background come into play with a living wage?
For example if the daughter of a millionaire applies for a job at McDonald's what exactly is her living wage?

MIT's living wage calculator says:


And if a daughter of a millionaire applied to McD, she'd probably be paid handsomely with ire for taking a job assuming she's a trust fund baby. But really, I imagine this scenario to be extremely atypical.

Originally Posted by Justw8

It's not really. The point of the argument is that many of the people fighting for the min wage increase will not see the wage increase. When it comes to automation the only people hired will be people who are skilled enough to repair the machines when needed. So at most you would need two-three people per shift (30-45 an hour) verses the more than 5 people per shift currently. Owner wins.

I don't think that was the point of the OP's argument. He seemed to be positing a causal link.

Anyway, no one really knows what automation will bring or when it will be practical on a large scale, especially for full automation. I was reading over Pew's "AI, Robotics, and the Future of Jobs" and there were a lot of good arguments on both sides and the last part about where both agree is a good read. Pew's "Reshaping the workplace: Tech-related jobs that didn’t exist (officially, at least) 15 years ago" is another decent read.

Personally, based on what I've read so far, I think a big portion of the problems will be remedied or increased due to policy and right now policy in in the US doesn't really favor the working class. For example, look at the art industry and starving artists, a good reason why there's a ton of them doesn't seem to necessarily be because it's easier than ever to become one but due to unabated collusion with some perverse culture sprinkled in. Look at the lobbying mess with municipal broadband. One point of the pro-side argues that there could be an uptick in small businesses offering more tailored services/products, but a lot of this coming to fruition will be affected by policy and education and both sides are in agreement that "Our public institutions—especially our educational system—are not adequately prepared for the coming wave of technological change." That said, I do wonder the full effect of AI.

It's also hard to really find much info on automation; though, admittedly, I haven't put much effort in. Anyway, I've only come across one article that tries to address negative/positive impacts of long term automation. I have read some non-journal published stuff that makes me question sustainability in regards to the resources needed to actually create and then maintain wide spread automation as well.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Originally Posted by Justw8

I agree with what you're saying. But I thought the point of the wage increase was to help poor families.

I actually don't believe helping poor people should be the deciding factor in determining minimum wage.

But anyways, how do we determine what is "poor" though? And is that definition of poor really that "poor". If you get what I am saying.

Anyhow worrying about how many jobs we will lose if we raise minimum is pointless because there are other factors that are causing us to bleed jobs even more with the wage floor being what it is now. That trend will most likely continue.

H1b, overseas outsourcing bleed jobs, illegal immigrants taking jobs for even less than minimum etc.

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

There really arent enough skilled jobs for everyone out there.

Did you really say that with a straight face? There are thousands upon thousands of skilled jobs that employers can't fill. They just can't find qualified people. If only those burger flippers would take a couple of years to go to trade school they could be pulling $40+ per hour instead of begging for $15

[Bon-Sama]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Did you really say that with a straight face? There are thousands upon thousands of skilled jobs that employers can't fill. They just can't find qualified people. If only those burger flippers would take a couple of years to go to trade school they could be pulling $40+ per hour instead of begging for $15

The largest sector of jobs is service by a wide margin; throw in low(er) skilled jobs and the number jumps up even more. As far as projected growth, the sector is only beaten by healthcare. And, in the healthcare sector, a huge portion of the projection is for home health and personal care aides totaling over 1 mil jobs. Both of these make well under both cuomo's living wage and MIT's living wage calculation too and home health aides are arguably medium skilled jobs.

Like I pointed out before, and you chose to ignore, there are 202+ million noninstutional ppl of working age. 164+ million ppl of working age at 25-64. Even if everyone had an advanced degree, you'd still need ppl working low skilled jobs. Also, it should be highlighted that just because a job is low skilled doesn't mean it's not hard work and doesn't require a living wage.

It should also be highlighted that in trades it's not like every one of those jobs is particularly intellectually demanding. In construction a helper may be no more than a ditch digger, loaders, or serve a janitorial role whereas a laborer is the one who operates machinery and can assist in craft work yet they're still lumped together under construction. Not to take away from their importance, but helpers would definitely fall into low(er) skilled labor.

I will say that if we actually invested in properly, imo, in infrastructure more jobs would be available, but there'd still be a limit.

Also, if you're looking to get hired in a trade it may not be as easy as you think. Despite the need for employees, a lot of these jobs require work experience that a trade student won't have vs an apprentice--1-2+ years exp. And apprenticeships aren't particularity easy to come by. They only offer a select amount spots every 1 to 3 years. And also with trade schools we're back to loans, debt, interest, and even lack of student living before you can try to find a job. Not t mention, unless I'm mistaken, a good bit of the limited amount of trade schools aren't accredited which means you may not even get assistance, especially a lesser predatory assistance, and the school's curriculum may not be recognized by an employer.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Did you really say that with a straight face? There are thousands upon thousands of skilled jobs that employers can't fill. They just can't find qualified people. If only those burger flippers would take a couple of years to go to trade school they could be pulling $40+ per hour instead of begging for $15

Yes I did.

But let me clarify. You cant give everyone a "skilled" job, whatever the consensus definition is of that. If they did have one of "those" kinds of jobs, it will no longer even be considered the "skill" job. It would drive wages down for that too.

So yeh there is not enough for "everyone". Even if there are many available position as I type this, not "everyone" can have one of those.