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Many people can afford NYC but who in the world would want a small row house on a rather nondescript street when they can get so much more here and the stress factor is lower?
Considering the price of a pre-war rowhouse in Brooklyn or Queens these days, I'd say a fair amount of people. Block after block of rowhouses drastically changes the fabric of the neighborhood, for better or worse depending on preference. Rowhouse neighborhoods have more sidewalk life. No driveways with cars pulling in and out of them. Typically you walk a block or 2 to go to the store, etc... I find it very convenient.
Considering the price of a pre-war rowhouse in Brooklyn or Queens these days, I'd say a fair amount of people. Block after block of rowhouses drastically changes the fabric of the neighborhood, for better or worse depending on preference. Rowhouse neighborhoods have more sidewalk life. No driveways with cars pulling in and out of them. Typically you walk a block or 2 to go to the store, etc... I find it very convenient.
Me too. Last night I was cooking fish, but I'd forgotten to buy a lemon. In five minutes, I walked a half-block away, handed over a few coins to the corner grocer where there was no line, returned with the lemon and kept cooking. I hardly missed a beat. That corner store feels like a second kitchen.
Along the way, I exchanged a few greetings while passing by on the sidewalk, which lifted my mood. Another time I stopped to show a 10-year-old girl the right way to hold a football so it'd spin off her hand. Then she could keep playing in with the boys. No afterschool sports club schedule, no Title IX gender equity case, just kids playing on a sidewalk with their parents watching from windows. It was the opposite of "stressful."
Trying to learn your "Texas Two-Step" and dance backwards, now that was stressful.
Last edited by BrightRabbit; 12-01-2015 at 09:16 AM..
Considering the price of a pre-war rowhouse in Brooklyn or Queens these days, I'd say a fair amount of people. Block after block of rowhouses drastically changes the fabric of the neighborhood, for better or worse depending on preference. Rowhouse neighborhoods have more sidewalk life. No driveways with cars pulling in and out of them. Typically you walk a block or 2 to go to the store, etc... I find it very convenient.
That's nice, and obviously that's why those people stay. But many people who do make the move, or accept the job transfers, do so because that is not particularly appealing to them. I personally don't care for shared walls or small spaces, but that's me. My original point was that your assertion that most ex new yorkers leave because they can't financially make it in NYC is incorrect. I did pretty well while in New York and actually I think I am doing even better here. It's been over a decade and I still feel the same way. Barring a family emergency, there's no way I'd give up what I have. YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightRabbit
Me too. Last night I was cooking fish, but I'd forgotten to buy a lemon. In five minutes, I walked a half-block away, handed over a few coins to the corner grocer where there was no line, returned with the lemon and kept cooking. I hardly missed a beat. That corner store feels like a second kitchen.
Along the way, I exchanged a few greetings while passing by on the sidewalk, which lifted my mood. Another time I stopped to show a 10-year-old girl the right way to hold a football so it'd spin off her hand. Then she could keep playing in with the boys. No afterschool sports club schedule, no Title IX gender equity case, just kids playing on a sidewalk with their parents watching from windows. It was the opposite of "stressful."
Trying to learn your "Texas Two-Step" and dance backwards, now that was stressful.
When I forget something, I drive exactly 2 minutes away to a huge supermarket, that is well stocked and well lit, with every organic and ethnic food imaginable. Point is, what stresses many ex-New Yorkers out is the daily grind, gobs of people everywhere, and from my experience in the legal industry, the poor work-life balance. Everyone has their own personal definition of heaven and I respect that. For me, it starts with where I live. I'm surrounded by tranquility and trees. I am decidedly not urban. A previous poster is right, the lifestyle that I have can be attained in the NYC area (though where I live is more akin to Westchester County than the suburban areas of Queens) but the cost is very, very steep. To get all of what I have, it would cost a couple of million. At least. But I don't have to pay that..and i'm not living in BFE either. Neither am I living in a cookie cutter subdivision of siding clad houses named Majestic Oaks or something. Would I move south if it wasn't for my husband? Probably not. But it ended up working out. I don't even know what the Texas two step is.
That's nice, and obviously that's why those people stay. But many people who do make the move, or accept the job transfers, do so because that is not particularly appealing to them. I personally don't care for shared walls or small spaces, but that's me. My original point was that your assertion that most ex new yorkers leave because they can't financially make it in NYC is incorrect. I did pretty well while in New York and actually I think I am doing even better here. It's been over a decade and I still feel the same way. Barring a family emergency, there's no way I'd give up what I have. YMMV.
When I forget something, I drive exactly 2 minutes away to a huge supermarket, that is well stocked and well lit, with every organic and ethnic food imaginable. Point is, what stresses many ex-New Yorkers out is the daily grind, gobs of people everywhere, and from my experience in the legal industry, the poor work-life balance. Everyone has their own personal definition of heaven and I respect that. For me, it starts with where I live. I'm surrounded by tranquility and trees. I am decidedly not urban. A previous poster is right, the lifestyle that I have can be attained in the NYC area (though where I live is more akin to Westchester County than the suburban areas of Queens) but the cost is very, very steep. To get all of what I have, it would cost a couple of million. At least. But I don't have to pay that..and i'm not living in BFE either. Neither am I living in a cookie cutter subdivision of siding clad houses named Majestic Oaks or something. Would I move south if it wasn't for my husband? Probably not. But it ended up working out. I don't even know what the Texas two step is.
That fine. We all have preferences, but that's not the point. I own a rowhouse, you own a McMansion. Great for us. But it is not about us. Point is that those of us from middle class backgrounds are no longer able to afford to stay in NYC with a similar lifestyle as our upbringings. In order to do so we have to leave the city limits. The middle class is being left behind. Sure we can go get better educations and whatnot, but if your pops was a small business owner, you shouldn't have to go become a hedge fund manager just to be able to stay in the same outerboro neighborhood you grew up in. This isn't Greenwich CT.
That fine. We all have preferences, but that's not the point. I own a rowhouse, you own a McMansion. Great for us. But it is not about us. Point is that those of us from middle class backgrounds are no longer able to afford to stay in NYC with a similar lifestyle as our upbringings. In order to do so we have to leave the city limits. The middle class is being left behind. Sure we can go get better educations and whatnot, but if your pops was a small business owner, you shouldn't have to go become a hedge fund manager just to be able to stay in the same outerboro neighborhood you grew up in. This isn't Greenwich CT.
The same thing is going on in Austin. People being priced out of their central, inner ring neighborhoods due to escalating demand and property taxes. While I do agree that it sucks, I also agree with the counterpoint that the working class people (those who owned their homes vs. renting) made (or will make) a killing selling said homes to the gentrifiers and moving on. You don't have to be a hedge fund manager to live a middle classed lifestyle in NYC. The people who are feeling the pinch are those who are not middle classed but lower income. Sadly, that is happening everywhere that has a robust economy. Like I mentioned upthread, this same convo is happening in Austin. A majority of NYC residents aren't wealthy. Isn't the median income in the $50s or something? Yet, many still stay in the city and enjoy it. There are also those who leave to perceived greener pastures. And there are those who weren't priced out at all and just want to move to where they think they can get more for their buck. No state taxation really helps everyone, from lower to middle to upper class. I've also heard that high taxes also contributes to people wanting to relocate elsewhere to "cheaper" areas.
And just a correction: I don't live in a McMansion. McMansions are overly large tract homes, which my house is not. It is almost 30 years old and custom.
The same thing is going on in Austin. People being priced out of their central, inner ring neighborhoods due to escalating demand and property taxes. While I do agree that it sucks, I also agree with the counterpoint that the working class people (those who owned their homes vs. renting) made (or will make) a killing selling said homes to the gentrifiers and moving on. You don't have to be a hedge fund manager to live a middle classed lifestyle in NYC. The people who are feeling the pinch are those who are not middle classed but lower income. Sadly, that is happening everywhere that has a robust economy. Like I mentioned upthread, this same convo is happening in Austin. A majority of NYC residents aren't wealthy. Isn't the median income in the $50s or something? Yet, many still stay in the city and enjoy it. There are also those who leave to perceived greener pastures. And there are those who weren't priced out at all and just want to move to where they think they can get more for their buck. No state taxation really helps everyone, from lower to middle to upper class. I've also heard that high taxes also contributes to people wanting to relocate elsewhere to "cheaper" areas.
And just a correction: I don't live in a McMansion. McMansions are overly large tract homes, which my house is not. It is almost 30 years old and custom.
I disagree that no taxation helps everyone.
What makes NYC the city that it is expensive public infrastructure that is at least partially taxpayer supported. The airports, the subways, the commuter railroads.
We have excellent public libraries and a cheap public university system (CUNY).
I also think you skimmed over what G-Dale is saying.
Perhaps you weren't born in NYC.
But a person born in NYC and raised here has lifelong family and friend connections. They may not want to just up and move to someplace where they totally don't know anybody. If they do have to move they may not want to move that far away.
As for working class people selling their homes and moving on as gentrification moved in, where did these working class people move to? They still need housing wherever they go. Now if their kids are already established with houses of their own their kids can sell the houses when the parents get old or die or whatever. That's a different outcome.
As for G-Dale's hedge fund example, take a neighborhood like Central Queens. You'd need a professional job with an advanced education if you wanted to have any reasonable standard of living. Otherwise you'll need to live with lots of roommates. He is saying people from working class backgrounds who had parents who were able to live in parts of the outer boroughs can no longer do so, and many of these people are forced out of the city due to economic reasons. This true and it is what the article was about. It's not limited to Black people I've known and seen it happen to other races, particularly recent immigrants or first generation Americans.
Keep in mind many New Yorkers are first generation Americans and may be closely tied to ethnic communities. So being priced out of a neighborhood may be even more difficult for them because they can't just go to any town USA. They may have previously relied on support structures within their own communities. So with those gone some people as the article suggests end up going back to their parents country of origin.
Last edited by NyWriterdude; 12-01-2015 at 12:52 PM..
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