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I don't think very much of University Heights was lost to the destruction that occurred further south of Tremont and to the East of Jerome. I know of one building fire at 180th and Acqueduct that took out what was left of the large apartment building that stood there, but overall it seems from my visits to the area, most recent in 2006, that only the most worn out buildings were demolished and replaced, in many cases, by garden style 2 or 3 story buildings.
Those 5 story walk ups were rough. The infrastructure of a lot of the buildings was beyond help, so simply a smart move to replace them.
But anybody who was there can shed some light. Where did the arson reach? I would like to know if University Heights/Fordham was affected too.
Well, it went up until about Bedford-Fordham. It's harder to see because of the work that is being done there to demolish abandoned buildings and ceate new ones. To see relics look at places like Decatur Avenue up until maybe 194th Street. Up until maybe 3-5 years ago there were still a few abandoned buildings on Decatur. The difference between Bedford Park-Fordham and the South Bronx is that the area remained working/lower-middle-class longer and the residents were very insrumental in stopping the arson, abandonment, and others social ills that affected the communities below Fordham. Look up Father Jenik, a priest who has been in that neighborhood who has been very active since the late 1970s. Research Bedford-Fordham Housing Corporation and Northwest Bronx Community & Clergy Coalition to get a taste of why the fires stopped before Bedford Park BLvd. I mean, there was some arson and abandonment, of course, but it was never allowed to the extent taht is was elsewhere.
From what I've heard, the burning didn't go north of Fordham Road. You can probably tell which areas were most effected by looking at the buildings themselves. 60's and beyond architecture is pretty distuinguishable from the art deco stuff you see in the Fordham area for example. Or maybe they were able to rehab some of the burnt out buildings? I don't know.
Definitely. You cannot always tell which were rehabbed and which weren't but there usually are some tell-tale signs:
1) Look at the windows. Look to see if any of the windows were bricked up.
2) Look to see if the bricks used are in different colors, especially around the top near the roof. Often times the bricks fall off from years of abandonment or from damaged substained during fires or vandalism.
3) Look at the strip near the top of the building near roof where the molding is/was. Many times there is just a cement strip where the molding used to be or a newly-molded one, which is more expensive. This a really tell-tale sign.
Also look for bright bricks, which means it was probably power-washed (though not necessarily from abandonment). Different brightly-colored paints such as green or blue or red can be seen on the fire escapes. Look for details on the building that don't look original or look lik epros of the real thing.
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Thanks, I'll keep a heads up for that when I'm on the 4 going to work.
I notice around the 167th st station, there are a lot of old buildings mixed in with newer ones. I'm guessing the newer looking ones were once abandoned lots?
The apartments around my work (170th st) are so run down, way more so than those pictures in MH.
This is getting kind of off-topic. I had asked what the buildings today look like that got burned back then, but not completely burned to the ground and got renovated. I was wondering what those look like today.
Well, to answer your question, many buildings in Mott Haven around the 138th Street corridor and side streets have been rehabbed. I can remember even maybe ten years ago MH was a lot grittier and had abandoned/burnt buildings even along the major throughfares. You have to remember taht the South Bronx lost about 40% of its housing stock between the 1960s and early 1980s in the height or arson and abandonment. The bricks have been power-washed, the fire escapes have been painted, the moldings have been replaced or removed, many of the windows have been bricked up, and you will notice on the tops and/or corners or many buildings thereis additional brickwork that wasn't that originally to compensate for the ornamentation taht was destroyed and had to ben taken down during taht time.
I think the Mott Haven buildings Super Mario posted look great. None of that is newer construction, although there must be large sections of Mott Haven that were re-built from scratch. The thing about the buildings north of Fordham Road were that they were originally built for the upper middle class whereas the South Bronx was traditionally a working-class neighborhood. Those apartments on the Grand Concourse are supposed to be very spacious and beautiful on the inside. There's not a ton of grafitti on the Grand Concourse, but I went to the library the other day and on Briggs north of there is full of grafitti. I don't understand why the owners aren't ticketed. I also don't understand why people grafitti their neighborhoods -- it's like **** where you eat.
I just saw your photos Cyrusjul -- great picture and perfectly illustrates what newer construction tends to look like.
Well, actually none of the BRonx was really ever intended for lower-class people. It's just places like Mott haven seemed to have eroded a lot more quickly than areas further north because the building stock is much older. MH was a developed area when places further north like Bedford Park and Fordham were still like farmland and small villages. Ever get a look at what the area around Yankee Stadium looked like in 1923 when they began building it? All weeds and some fields. Many of those buildings in MH were built before 1900 or just after.
During the early part of the 20th century, the South Bronx even was considered to be a very desirable place to live for immigrants coming up from the Lower Eastside. During the 1940s and 50s the buildings in MH were already so old that they began to decay just because of age withot anyone having to burnt or vandalize them. THe start of the fires and building degradation was due to age at first, not just arson, whch really started in the 1960s. The Grand Concourse was a place for upper-middle-class people and you can still see remnants of that even now. Most of the South Bronx was at one time solidly middle-class as those buildings and the ammenities were never created for poor people. It's not just north of Fordham Rd. that was considered well-to-do, areas much lower than there were always midddle-class up until the 1940s and sometimes even 50s and early 60s.
As for owners being fined for graffiti on buildings? That's just not realistic. Hours after the graffiti is painted over people are going to begin to vandalize them again. It should be apparent, but it isn't just people who live there who vandalize it. That is kind of why the Bronx is the condition is currently is- people are mainly renters, not owners, they are much more transient, and even if the area was once wealthy, many have never seen it that way in their ifetime.
I dont know but Morris Heights may have been the hardest hit with arson and abandonement. Now, I know you all probably think im crazy. The concensus is Morrisania. Other people say Longwood, Mott Haven and Melrose. But A trip along University avenue from W 174th to W Burnside reveals a grim picture.
Let me paint the picture...
On W 174th, just after the Sedgwick houses, there are boarded up windows On University. Next building you see a NYCHA rehab...and clearly see where the windows used to be. After that, on the same block, is a new development.
On W 175th, you see a vacant lot. Most likely a building used to be here. I think the new developments there where chosen to be projects.
W 175th continues on the next block. Here you get that classic eerie south Bronx feel. IMO, W 175th to W 176th on University is as close visually to the 70's as you can get. This block has what used to be groceries, now closed with the riot gates over it. It's eerie because since this block burned down in the 70's, it has never opened up again. Paint covers the gates in the form of graffiti. Not even the taggers tag it up anymore. Next to it is another NYCHA rehab. You can see where the bottom two windows used to be.
W 176th to W Tremont avenue is a commercial strip on University. Looks real rough and gritty. Now the real eye sore is that the buildings in the background, ALL 4 of them are NYCHA rehabs. Not sure but that may be Andrews avenue. You can tell that these buildings were destroyed. ALL of the windows currently in place were made over. You see where all the old windows used to be. Twelve window outlines in the 4 buildings, which lie consecutive to each other.
The area between W Tremont and Burniside avenue is a LONG block. First thing you see on the W Tremont corner is another NYCHA rehab. The building has a weird shape to it but it's a pretty big building. Here you really can't see where the windows used to be. Continuing down shows the graffiti ridden, closed down, hebrew college. There's plenty of photos on this, real ghetto. After this, you have two HUGE NYCHA rehabs. But you would never think that these were arsoned. Next is a church and a playground. Finally towards the end of the block you see another HUGE rehabbed building, in the same shape as the one on W Tremont. This one has the blue construction cover and boarded up windows.
If you're on the 4 Train, the ride between 176th and Burnside reveal many "what used to be shells" buildings.
Just look at all the rehabs in Morris Heights.
Per Wiki:
Harrison Avenue Rehab (Group A); one, 5-story rehabilited tenement building.
Harrison Avenue Rehab (Group B); four rehabilitated buildings, 5 and 6-stories tall.
Macombs Road; two rehabilited buildings, 5 and 6-stories tall.
Morris Heights Rehab; three rehabilitated tenement buildings, 5 and 6-stories tall
Sedgewick Houses; seven buildings, 14 and 15-stories tall.
University Avenue Rehab; four, 6-story rehabilitated tenement buildings.
West Tremont Avenue-Sedgwick Avenue Area; one, 12-story building.
West Tremont Rehab (Group 1); two rehabilitated tenement buildings, 5 and 6-stories tall.
West Tremont Rehab (Group 3); one, 5-story rehabilitated tenement building.
West Tremont Rehab (Group 2); two, 6-story rehabilitated tenement buildings.
Not counting the Sedgwick houses, those are 20 rehabilitated buidlings. Incredible for an area that small.
Also Morris Heights has 31 building code violations. In comparison, University Heights has only 3.
Here is a photo of what looks to be the W 174th to W 175th block I was talking about. Looks like the Sedwgick houses in the background.
These buildings were completely rehabbed and have people living in them as of late 2005/2006. The bricks have been cleaned and I believe the fire escapes ae pained a sort of light olive-green. They did a decent job. Yes, the aea was a complete eyesore until 2-3 years ago. It has a long way to go, but that entire block has been completely renovated.
Well, a lot of the places were wood-frame homes and 2-3-family houses. Several of these houses have been cleared just north of Freeman Street on Southern Blvd. Up a bit further before 174th Street another large apartment building that had been abandoned was demolished. This was all on the eastern side of the street, by the way. You can still see the stairs leading up to where the houses were on a few of them since the terrain is rather rough andhilly over there. All that is left is a few lots with a lot of crap and debris.
Do you guys think there will ever be another wave of arson like it happened in the 70's or life and conditions today are just so different than back then? I believe those fires had nothing to do with riots, like it happen in other cities.
Great story from the NYT on Fr. Jenik popped up when I googled the name. I was a member of Our Lady of Refuge when my family lived on Kingsbridge Rd. We moved out in the late '70's, so it was before Fr. Jenik's time, but we had heard about the work he was doing in the area. I believe the pastor back then was Msgr. Nemicek. The parish hall was named after him.
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