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In many threads about gentrification someone will eventually make a remark that newcomers have no respect for the neighborhoods that they move into and that they should embrace and preserve the culture of the area.
Noe to be indelicate but In areas that have seen poverty, decay and redlining, what exactly does that mean? And to be clear, yes, I am a middle class white girl, but I grew up in Alphabet City when it was burning and a scary place, went to the local schools for some time, and I went to a very rough HS school where most of other students were rough from the rough parts of upper Manhattan, the Bronx, and Brooklyn. (For old timers, that would be Julia Richman in the late 80’s.)
Is divestment from quality or a variety of retail a culture one would try or want to protect? I get no one wants to buy $4 coffee. What’s wrong with a taco truck, or any other kind of food truck? That’s how Shake Shack got started. It’s a low investment and low risk into a new area. Bring it on. As one thread pointed out, some of these neighborhoods only have bodegas, hair salons and auto parts. Who would want to preserve that lack of diversity? Does one support loud music or other disturbances late at night? People put up with lack of consideration, but do they like putting up with it? I doubt it.
Wouldn’t it be better to define what you want to preserve?
In many threads about gentrification someone will eventually make a remark that newcomers have no respect for the neighborhoods that they move into and that they should embrace and preserve the culture of the area.
Noe to be indelicate but In areas that have seen poverty, decay and redlining, what exactly does that mean? And to be clear, yes, I am a middle class white girl, but I grew up in Alphabet City when it was burning and a scary place, went to the local schools for some time, and I went to a very rough HS school where most of other students were rough from the rough parts of upper Manhattan, the Bronx, and Brooklyn. (For old timers, that would be Julia Richman in the late 80’s.)
Is divestment from quality or a variety of retail a culture one would try or want to protect? I get no one wants to buy $4 coffee. What’s wrong with a taco truck, or any other kind of food truck? That’s how Shake Shack got started. It’s a low investment and low risk into a new area. Bring it on. As one thread pointed out, some of these neighborhoods only have bodegas, hair salons and auto parts. Who would want to preserve that lack of diversity? Does one support loud music or other disturbances late at night? People put up with lack of consideration, but do they like putting up with it? I doubt it.
Wouldn’t it be better to define what you want to preserve?
They already are defining it when they explicitly talk about black and brown people being pushed it. Just read between the lines. I said it before, but you have some people of color that want the area to stay that way and they get to say it (or at least imply) because all of the power is in the "white man's hands" so they can want to essentially segregated if you will, but others would be called out for such behavior.
The arguments against gentrification in my neighborhood are always about ethnic vs. non-ethnic. It's like...it's ok to have 20 Colombian restaurants in a small radius, 10 of which specialize in chicken, but the second you want to build a gastro pub, a French restaurant, or open a cheese shop, all hell breaks loose from the anti-gentrification people.
Those people also tend to forget that this neighborhood was actually built for middle-upper class Americans and the Colombians moved in a few decades later, bringing all their cuisine with them. Why is it ok for Colombians (or whatever country) to open up restaurants that cater to their demographic, but the second someone who is not Colombian (or Nepalese, Bengali, Peruvian, Indian, etc.) wants to open something that caters to ALL people, not just people from one country, is a villain?
I don't get it. I am sick of anti-gentrification activism. Let people open businesses that they want, and if they can make enough money to stay in business in this competitive environment, more power to them.
The arguments against gentrification in my neighborhood are always about ethnic vs. non-ethnic. It's like...it's ok to have 20 Colombian restaurants in a small radius, 10 of which specialize in chicken, but the second you want to build a gastro pub, a French restaurant, or open a cheese shop, all hell breaks loose from the anti-gentrification people.
I guess the way to fix this is to listen to their concerns, rather than reflexively defend. I think it really isn't about the gastro pub, or the cheese, and more about affordability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna
Let people open businesses that they want, and if they can make enough money to stay in business in this competitive environment, more power to them.
Hear, hear. (Although I could personally due without a two coffee shops on a block. Trendy areas tend to replace bodegas with coffee shops, hence no variety.)
Wouldn’t it be better to define what you want to preserve?
I would say it is the isolation, marginalization, and people consciously and subconsciously acting in a way to displace them and viewing their culture as inferior. Woody Allen's Manhattan is very different from Spike Lee's Do the right thing. Similarly, people who want to live a Sex in the City experience is very different from Girls.
The arguments against gentrification in my neighborhood are always about ethnic vs. non-ethnic. It's like...it's ok to have 20 Colombian restaurants in a small radius, 10 of which specialize in chicken, but the second you want to build a gastro pub, a French restaurant, or open a cheese shop, all hell breaks loose from the anti-gentrification people.
Those people also tend to forget that this neighborhood was actually built for middle-upper class Americans and the Colombians moved in a few decades later, bringing all their cuisine with them. Why is it ok for Colombians (or whatever country) to open up restaurants that cater to their demographic, but the second someone who is not Colombian (or Nepalese, Bengali, Peruvian, Indian, etc.) wants to open something that caters to ALL people, not just people from one country, is a villain?
I don't get it. I am sick of anti-gentrification activism. Let people open businesses that they want, and if they can make enough money to stay in business in this competitive environment, more power to them.
I would say it is the isolation, marginalization, and people consciously and subconsciously acting in a way to displace them and viewing their culture as inferior. Woody Allen's Manhattan is very different from Spike Lee's Do the right thing. Similarly, people who want to live a Sex in the City experience is very different from Girls.
I would say some of that is true, but some of that is imagined. We aren't in a classless society. We bring with our social class, ideas. We don't all agree on them.
But the imagined part is when people make assumptions about others. I once had a person tell me they felt I was acting superior with them because I use big words in conversation. I use big words, because I use big words in all conversation. It goes back to the phrase, "It's not all about you."
I would say some of that is true, but some of that is imagined. We aren't in a classless society. We bring with our social class, ideas. We don't all agree on them.
But the imagined part is when people make assumptions about others. I once had a person tell me they felt I was acting superior with them because I use big words in conversation. I use big words, because I use big words in all conversation. It goes back to the phrase, "It's not all about you."
People with money and higher education have an outsize influence on what happens to the community, so the power dynamic is a lot different. People reading the New Yorker are way different than working class culture. Truth is the majority of NYC public school system trains people for their lot in life. Appreciation for fine arts and proper English is a signal of someone upbringing and of a higher social class, private school tend to emphasize it relative to public schools. America doesn't do trade school as well as other countries, so it is even more despairing to be working class in America.
In addition, our society is changing in terms of what people seek in others. It is increasingly become more common people of similar background marry each other. People are not as open minded as in the past in willing to marry someone of different social class so it becomes a much more us vs them scenario.
Wouldn’t it be better to define what you want to preserve?
Perhaps it comes down to Emotion vs Reason?
Everyone likes to think a particular area begins and ends with their time there. Example: I read that the Grass Roots on St Marks is closing. I love the place and have great memories of it.
My emotions dictate I get angry about the rent increases as they results from the gentrification wave in that part of town (most of the town actually).
Reason then dictates that the City changes constantly and there were numerous businesses there before. People come and go. Change is inevitable and it is not some sinister plot. Sad, but understandable.
A simple example, yes.
Now when Emotion dovetails with class and ethnicity, Reason then has a formidable foe.
What I want to preserve is the multiculturalism that makes NYC NYC. If a gastro pub could survive with a taco truck parked outside or a Colombian chicken place on the same block, I wouldn't have a problem. The problem is that you can have 10 Colombian chicken joints today and end up with zero tomorrow. Because the gastro pub crowd don't like the chicken crowd.
The next thing is chains: chain fast food, banks on every corner or all four corners, and empty storefronts where there used to be, let's say, a Colombian chicken joint. There are almost no more fabric stores or bookstores and little shops that I used to travel to for interesting shopping like that little hole in the wall on 7th Ave that has nothing but rubber stamps - they make the city a varied and interesting place but there is no room for them in a gentrified city. They're important for the character of a place, but there's no way they can pay the same kind of rent Gristede's can, or McDonald's, or Chase Bank, and they don't provide the tax break of an empty spot. So rather than making provision for variety, they are wiped off the cityscape and each of those losses changes NYC for the blander.
Roseba: My aunt went to Julia Richman when it was the last stop before reform school, back in the 50s. She dropped out.
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