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1. Grocery stores can’t sell wine, from what I can tell. This means that instead of being able to pick up a bottle and buy it alongside your other groceries, and instead of grocers being able to just add another aisle to an existing store and sell wine, which they can do in plenty of other places, with minimal added cost, it’s necessary to run a separate wine store, which imposes additional costs on retailers and additional time on consumers.
2. Community boards seem to have specific veto rights over chains locating in a particular space. This means that even though a landlord and a merchant both want to rent space, and even though market studies would show that there is sufficient prospective business for the prospective store to do enough business, a community board can block it.
Why is this intrusive government best?
In the Upper East Side, for example, I’m not aware of any issues with drunkenness, or any other public health issues, that need to be addressed by prohibiting grocery stores from selling wine. And letting government pick which tenants can locate in particular spaces just leads to delays and waste in getting stores up and running.
Why can’t government just stay out of these things? The free market will lead to better outcomes.
Amendment XXI
Section 1.
The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
Section 2. The transportation or importation into any state, territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.
-----
Quote:
Why can’t government just stay out of these things?
Section 2 essentially says that that the individual states can do whatever they want in regards to alcohol. There is nothing in section 2 that says the laws have to make sense.
When I lived in PA many years ago, beer had to be sold in beer stores. Wine and liquor had to be sold in state run stores. (PA readers: is it still the case?)
Last edited by GoldenHair; 08-22-2021 at 07:25 AM..
Supermarkets can sell a “wine product” which is essentially wine but about half the alcohol percentage as regular wine. There must be a restriction on the alcohol content that can be sold in supermarkets that lets them sell beer and lower alcohol ‘wine’.
1. Grocery stores can’t sell wine, from what I can tell. This means that instead of being able to pick up a bottle and buy it alongside your other groceries, and instead of grocers being able to just add another aisle to an existing store and sell wine, which they can do in plenty of other places, with minimal added cost, it’s necessary to run a separate wine store, which imposes additional costs on retailers and additional time on consumers.
2. Community boards seem to have specific veto rights over chains locating in a particular space. This means that even though a landlord and a merchant both want to rent space, and even though market studies would show that there is sufficient prospective business for the prospective store to do enough business, a community board can block it.
Why is this intrusive government best?
In the Upper East Side, for example, I’m not aware of any issues with drunkenness, or any other public health issues, that need to be addressed by prohibiting grocery stores from selling wine. And letting government pick which tenants can locate in particular spaces just leads to delays and waste in getting stores up and running.
Why can’t government just stay out of these things? The free market will lead to better outcomes.
Whether you agree with it or not the reason for this is that the liquor laws in NY State are still designed to support small businesses and the lobby of the small businesses in support of these laws is very strong. Every time there is any kind of move to change the liquor sales laws it gets squashed by the small business lobby.
The reason behind NYC's community control of chain/big box stores is much the same. If NYC were wide open to chain/big box stores it would quickly put most small businesses out of business as it has done to countless Main Streets across the country which turned into virtual ghost towns when malls and big box stores opened anywhere nearby. It would also create a major inconvenience problem for the millions of NYC residents who do not have cars and do not want to have to go miles to shop for everything.NYC is designed for carless people who for the most part want to be able to shop very close to home.
If allowed to run amok in this regard in NYC , the free market would only result in only a single better outcome...prices would be lower for virtually everything. Sometimes though, having the lowest prices is not the only or even most important consideration.
Wondering why you have chosen to focus on this as some kind of peculiarly NY City situation when there are millions of other town and local governments all across the country that do the exact same thing by banning big box/chain stores, banning liquor sales on Sundays or banning bars and liquor sales completely ,etc. There are thousands of villages all across the country where the main reason for their existence is to tightly control zoning and prohibit a whole host of things be it big stores, liquor stores, bars, whatever. Think of NYC as a conglomeration of villages and towns and it might be easier to understand.
Whether you agree with it or not the reason for this is that the liquor laws in NY State are still designed to support small businesses and the lobby of the small businesses in support of these laws is very strong. Every time there is any kind of move to change the liquor sales laws it gets squashed by the small business lobby.
The reason behind NYC's community control of chain/big box stores is much the same. If NYC were wide open to chain/big box stores it would quickly put most small businesses out of business as it has done to countless Main Streets across the country which turned into virtual ghost towns when malls and big box stores opened anywhere nearby. It would also create a major inconvenience problem for the millions of NYC residents who do not have cars and do not want to have to go miles to shop for everything.NYC is designed for carless people who for the most part want to be able to shop very close to home.
If allowed to run amok in this regard in NYC , the free market would only result in only a single better outcome...prices would be lower for virtually everything. Sometimes though, having the lowest prices is not the only or even most important consideration.
Wondering why you have chosen to focus on this as some kind of peculiarly NY City situation when there are millions of other town and local governments all across the country that do the exact same thing by banning big box/chain stores, banning liquor sales on Sundays or banning bars and liquor sales completely ,etc. There are thousands of villages all across the country where the main reason for their existence is to tightly control zoning and prohibit a whole host of things be it big stores, liquor stores, bars, whatever. Think of NYC as a conglomeration of villages and towns and it might be easier to understand.
NYC seems more draconian about these things than plenty of other areas.
So the small business lobby uses government to squash competition. That’s not good.
when we had the house in pa we saw only the state can own the liquor stores .
pa is the land of virtue , liberty and independence , so there ya go .
for those that like to blame ny for being so controlling , spin again .
Are PA Liquor Stores state owned?
Pennsylvania is an alcoholic beverage control state. Spirits are to be sold only in the state owned Fine Wine & Good Spirits stores, which also sell wine, but not beer.
The states that currently have state-owned liquor stores are:
Alabama.
Idaho.
New Hampshire.
North Carolina.
Pennsylvania.
Utah.
Virginia.
Last edited by mathjak107; 08-22-2021 at 07:47 AM..
NYC seems more draconian about these things than plenty of other areas.
So the small business lobby uses government to squash competition. That’s not good.
Small business lobby, big business lobby, chamber of commerce, rotary club, gun lobby ...what difference does it make?
These are the entities that control most of everything in every state, not just NY.
It's business lobbies of one kind or another that pay to run the show for all of us.
What's more "draconian" ? A State where they regulate liquor sales to one degree or another or a State where they actually own and have complete control over every aspect of liquor sales?
What's draconian about keeping big box stores out of a community when that's what the overwhelming majority want ? And why is that any different than communities that ban liquor stores, bars, night clubs, etc when that's what the majority of residents want ? May places are zoned strictly residential only, preventing all business of any kind.
I suspect that you don't live in NYC because otherwise you would have a better understanding of why most NY'ers would rather have the convenience of small neighborhood businesses and restaurants within easy walking distance. If you do live in NYC and are one of the few who are just dying to have a walmart or a block buster liquor store 50 blocks away so you can pay for an uber to save a few bucks on whatever you are buying ,you probably better relocate to some place more suburban.
What's draconian about keeping big box stores out of a community when that's what the overwhelming majority want ?
If you do live in NYC and are one of the few who are just dying to have a walmart or a block buster liquor store 50 blocks away so you can pay for an uber to save a few bucks on whatever you are buying ,you probably better relocate to some place more suburban.
There's no evidence whatsoever for your first statement. Based on how well larger stores do in NYC (in general), people DO want larger stores.
Telling someone to leave town shows the bankruptcy of your argument. I thought that NYC had open-minded people in it. I guess not, in your case.
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