Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The worse parts of NYC are just as bad as the worst parts of any other city crime rates mean nothing in a city as big and densely populated as NYC.
Wont the good areas make the cities crime rate seem lower, is that what your saying?
Here is some stuff from today Shots Fired | 91 E 18th St X Church Rd Brooklyn, NY | 8/6/2009 7:56 p.m. Shots Fired | Hunts Point Ave & Seneca Ave Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 7:46 p.m. Shooting | E 100 St & 2nd Ave Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 2:48 p.m. Male Shot | 1st Av & E 100 St Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 1:49 p.m. Shooting | Marion Av X E 194th St Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 12:42 a.m. Homicide | Crescent Ave Staten Island, NY | 8/6/2009 4:19 a.m.
The numbers have to stand for something, and the fact that crime isn't as rampant in even the bad parts of NY as they were before, says alot too. How many people come from certain hoods like Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, etc... Leave for a while then come back and say "dag alot has changed?" I think what 'analyticalkeys' is trying to say is that on average in the city as a whole you are less likely, to become a victim of crime. For example Franklin Ave around Eastern Parkway is alot safer than it was long ago. I used to live in Miami and in the NY area, I can tell you about so many places that changed and my young female cousins are able to walk the streets in Far Rockaway, Jamaica or Flatbush, but they can't even walk or ride the bus in North Miami without being harassed. Where alot of cities stayed the same as far as crime rate or got worse NY went down. Brownsville and East NY are still dangerous, is it as dangerous as '89? No, however you are less likely to have something happen to you walking down Saratoga ave than in Liberty City or Little Haiti in Miami. From my own observation, coupled with data, I cannot deny this as fact. But it is still a problem that crime seems to be contained in majority black and latino areas and something has to be done.
p.s. I liked that you noted "medina" not just Brooklyn
Just because nothing happened to you or your family members doesn't mean it isn't happening at all. People get harassed everyday here on the train and bus. I made a post months ago about a woman I saw basically getting sexually assaulted on the Q train at Canal st (and all the Bloomberg/Kelly crowd said I was lying) by a group of thugs wielding guns. No one could do anything because of that, including her b/f who they pistol whipped on the train and when we pulled into Canal station we ran up to alert the booth clerk all the while we could hear the woman screaming...did not once make the news or papers.
Alot of people leave and come back and while things have changed, it certainly isn't better. Unemployment is higher than the late 80s/early 90s, more homelessness, teen pregnancy is higher, economy is worse etc. I don't call that getting better. Crime is up in many categories despite the false reports from Bloomberg/Kelly. Also murder rate alone doesn't determine how bad/safe a city is. In NYC's worst day it was NEVER the highest for crime or murders...even in the worst year on record (1990) so what are people REALLY saying? Does that mean it was safe then? Compared to the 80s/90s crime is down overall everywhere not just NYC (going by the "official" stats of course). For the record, I've lived in Chicago and spent quite some time in the south and west sides...NO DIFFERENT from Brooklyn (flatbush, do or die, the wasteland, the east, C.I., etc). Spent time in Orlando & Tampa Bay, FL, Jackson, Mississippi...Watts & Oakland, CA, Newark NJ, Baltimore, MD, Washington, DC, Richmond, VA (list goes ON AND ONE)...no different from Brooklyn, Bronx, Harlem etc. Good parts, bad parts and the bad parts were the SAME THING as here...drugs, gangs, grafitti, prostitution, daily hood beef (fights, "baby momma drama", he said/she said) etc. When I was in Chi-town, most of the guys I was stationed with were from there and lived in the hood so everyday after work I was in either Englewood or North Lawndale. I saw everything that I saw here in Brooklyn where I'm from but nothing happened to me while I was there. Should I make posts about how "soft" Chicago is and how it's crime rate is overhyped (basically the opposite of what people say about NYCs crime rate being down)?
Bottom line, mostly everyone is making it seem as if NYC is some kind of utopia. Look man LOL, I'm just trying to keep these people safe because you guys are going to get these individuals seriously injured teliing them things like, "Oh, don't worry, Harlem is gentrified now, it's completely safe " or "Brooklyns great, you can walk right down Franklin Ave...no problemo ". The only thing different between now and then is the drug trade isn't as out in the open as it was. Back then it was total disregard for law and authority (you know how Brooklyn used to be man). Ghouliani made it so you have to be descreet. Detroit, Chicago, Camden etc are naturally always going to have more murders (by rate) and slightly more crime by the numbers. Why? Because they are not the center of the world. USA cannot function if NYC isn't making money (tourism, real estate etc) so there has to be a strong police prescence and constant empty rhetoric that we're the "safest city in the world" to keep these things intact. The government doesn't care about Camden or Detroit being an absolute wasteland. We can't deny the obvious stat juking (regardless of what people say). I'm not concerned with the "numbers game" and politicians playing the masses with empty rhetoric (ie: "safest city in the world") as I'm concerned with the upliftment of the Moorish (so called "Blacks, Latinos/Hispanics, Native Americans/American Indian) neighborhoods and it's people, which you eluded to at the end of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyticalkeys
P.S. I'm not from the suburbs, European, and I do have a lot of friends that live in the hood, so I've spent a fair share of time in them. Thanks.
You spent time there, I'm from there...and still live and do work there. Pretty safe to say I'm the expert here.
Last edited by justfarr1030; 08-06-2009 at 10:27 PM..
Reason: forgot to say...
Wont the good areas make the cities crime rate seem lower, is that what your saying?
Here is some stuff from today Shots Fired | 91 E 18th St X Church Rd Brooklyn, NY | 8/6/2009 7:56 p.m. Shots Fired | Hunts Point Ave & Seneca Ave Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 7:46 p.m. Shooting | E 100 St & 2nd Ave Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 2:48 p.m. Male Shot | 1st Av & E 100 St Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 1:49 p.m. Shooting | Marion Av X E 194th St Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 12:42 a.m. Homicide | Crescent Ave Staten Island, NY | 8/6/2009 4:19 a.m.
Im saying NYC is a city of 8 million people and there arent 4 million criminals so even if the rate was 100% accurate which its not. A much better description of how safe you would be is find out the rate of the borough or neighborhood if you want to get accurate.
Just because nothing happened to you or your family members doesn't mean it isn't happening at all. People get harassed everyday here on the train and bus. I made a post months ago about a woman I saw basically getting sexually assaulted on the Q train at Canal st (and all the Bloomberg/Kelly crowd said I was lying) by a group of thugs wielding guns. No one could do anything because of that, including her b/f who they pistol whipped on the train and when we pulled into Canal station we ran up to alert the booth clerk all the while we could hear the woman screaming...did not once make the news or papers.
Alot of people leave and come back and while things have changed, it certainly isn't better. Unemployment is higher than the late 80s/early 90s, more homelessness, teen pregnancy is higher, economy is worse etc. I don't call that getting better. Crime is up in many categories despite the false reports from Bloomberg/Kelly. Also murder rate alone doesn't determine how bad/safe a city is. In NYC's worst day it was NEVER the highest for crime or murders...even in the worst year on record (1990) so what are people REALLY saying? Does that mean it was safe then? Compared to the 80s/90s crime is down overall everywhere not just NYC (going by the "official" stats of course). For the record, I've lived in Chicago and spent quite some time in the south and west sides...NO DIFFERENT from Brooklyn (flatbush, do or die, the wasteland, the east, C.I., etc). Spent time in Orlando & Tampa Bay, FL, Jackson, Mississippi...Watts & Oakland, CA, Newark NJ, Baltimore, MD, Washington, DC, Richmond, VA (list goes ON AND ONE)...no different from Brooklyn, Bronx, Harlem etc. Good parts, bad parts and the bad parts were the SAME THING as here...drugs, gangs, grafitti, prostitution, daily hood beef (fights, "baby momma drama", he said/she said) etc. When I was in Chi-town, most of the guys I was stationed with were from there and lived in the hood so everyday after work I was in either Englewood or North Lawndale. I saw everything that I saw here in Brooklyn where I'm from but nothing happened to me while I was there. Should I make posts about how "soft" Chicago is and how it's crime rate is overhyped (basically the opposite of what people say about NYCs crime rate being down)?
Bottom line, mostly everyone is making it seem as if NYC is some kind of utopia. Look man LOL, I'm just trying to keep these people safe because you guys are going to get these individuals seriously injured teliing them things like, "Oh, don't worry, Harlem is gentrified now, it's completely safe " or "Brooklyns great, you can walk right down Franklin Ave...no problemo ". The only thing different between now and then is the drug trade isn't as out in the open as it was. Back then it was total disregard for law and authority (you know how Brooklyn used to be man). Ghouliani made it so you have to be descreet. Detroit, Chicago, Camden etc are naturally always going to have more murders (by rate) and slightly more crime by the numbers. Why? Because they are not the center of the world. USA cannot function if NYC isn't making money (tourism, real estate etc) so there has to be a strong police prescence and constant empty rhetoric that we're the "safest city in the world" to keep these things intact. The government doesn't care about Camden or Detroit being an absolute wasteland. We can't deny the obvious stat juking (regardless of what people say). I'm not concerned with the "numbers game" and politicians playing the masses with empty rhetoric (ie: "safest city in the world") as I'm concerned with the upliftment of the Moorish (so called "Blacks, Latinos/Hispanics, Native Americans/American Indian) neighborhoods and it's people, which you eluded to at the end of your post.
You spent time there, I'm from there...and still live and do work there. Pretty safe to say I'm the expert here.
Ok I am by NOOOO means a Guliani or Bloomberg supporter, I lived in both Miami and the NY area, and while I completely agree with you, crimes seem to be more acute in the 'hood in NY as opposed to other parts of NY, but certain hoods are not the same as others. But not every hood is like Brownsville or East NY. Imagine a city where every ghetto is like Brownsville or East NY and in some cases worse. It is still possible for one to become a victim of crime, its just not as likely. I could easily say maybe its because I'm a minority myself and I blend in and stand out less, but from where I stand it seems to be more of a fact. Ex. I'm Haitian and like to go to West Indian parades and Haitian flag day events in Miami, Orlando,NJ, and NY. In Miami every nationality kept to their own side and shoot outs and fights broke out sporadically as well as unattended young women being harassed. Same thing in Orlando and NJ, however when I'm at the West Indian parade in Brooklyn which is the largest of all these events with more people in attendance, I hardly see this. Not to say they've never happened in the past but its less rampant. And yes I know my Noble Drew Ali and I am fully aware that there is a numbers game going on. While there is a numbers game there seems to be a little overlapping between the game and the reality. NY is very unique in its density, diversity and layout, things that seem to happen elsewhere affect it here differently, its probably one of the few place where because of the per capita crime rate you may be less likely to become a victim of crime, however because people are out and about all the time your probably more likely to witness one.
Mod cut: not necessary, thanks.
Interesting that everything in the United States apparently relies on NYC. and that's a comment from a senior member.
You saw what happened to the economy after 9/11 right? This is not a biased point of view. If New York City shut down tomorrow, the WORLDS economy would feel it. Ask anybody that works on wall street or in the business world and they'll tell you that. So it makes more sense to over hype the "safest city..." rhetoric because they have to keep the money flow alive here. It has to be tourists coming in and out (this city is the biggest for tourism in the U.S.), new businesses wanting to set up shop etc. The government would NEVER let this place turn into Camden, NJ or Detroit or Flint, MI or any place like those (basically completely burnt down, vacant homes everwhere, no economy, hardly any police etc...even though New York was close to being like detroit at one point).
Wont the good areas make the cities crime rate seem lower, is that what your saying?
Here is some stuff from today Shots Fired | 91 E 18th St X Church Rd Brooklyn, NY | 8/6/2009 7:56 p.m. Shots Fired | Hunts Point Ave & Seneca Ave Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 7:46 p.m. Shooting | E 100 St & 2nd Ave Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 2:48 p.m. Male Shot | 1st Av & E 100 St Manhattan, NY | 8/6/2009 1:49 p.m. Shooting | Marion Av X E 194th St Bronx, NY | 8/6/2009 12:42 a.m. Homicide | Crescent Ave Staten Island, NY | 8/6/2009 4:19 a.m.
E 194 in north Fordham is one of the worst streets I been on. It reminds me of E 183rd. Terrible place.
Ok I am by NOOOO means a Guliani or Bloomberg supporter, I lived in both Miami and the NY area, and while I completely agree with you, crimes seem to be more acute in the 'hood in NY as opposed to other parts of NY, but certain hoods are not the same as others. But not every hood is like Brownsville or East NY. Imagine a city where every ghetto is like Brownsville or East NY and in some cases worse. It is still possible for one to become a victim of crime, its just not as likely. I could easily say maybe its because I'm a minority myself and I blend in and stand out less, but from where I stand it seems to be more of a fact. Ex. I'm Haitian and like to go to West Indian parades and Haitian flag day events in Miami, Orlando,NJ, and NY. In Miami every nationality kept to their own side and shoot outs and fights broke out sporadically as well as unattended young women being harassed. Same thing in Orlando and NJ, however when I'm at the West Indian parade in Brooklyn which is the largest of all these events with more people in attendance, I hardly see this. Not to say they've never happened in the past but its less rampant. And yes I know my Noble Drew Ali and I am fully aware that there is a numbers game going on. While there is a numbers game there seems to be a little overlapping between the game and the reality. NY is very unique in its density, diversity and layout, things that seem to happen elsewhere affect it here differently, its probably one of the few place where because of the per capita crime rate you may be less likely to become a victim of crime, however because people are out and about all the time your probably more likely to witness one.
Well there are 8 million people here so NYC will always have less murder per capita. Like I said before, we've NEVER been murder capital or crime capital, even in the "dark days", that's all I'm saying. I just don't personally think it's much difference between the bad parts here compared to bad parts of other cities. What I can say from experience is that when you go to most of these other cities mentioned they're different from us in how the make up of the ghetto is. In Chicago, once you leave downtown, you're in the hood (with the exception of the northside...it depends which part). Same thing for Detroit, Philladelphia, LA, Newark, New Orleans etc. In NYC, it depends where you are. Manhattan has mostly upscale European neighborhoods. Brooklyn has Dumbo, Park Slope, Bensonhurst, Midwood, Flatlands, Boroughpark, Kensington, Bayridge, Fort Hamilton, Brightgton etc. and the same for all the other boroughs. The hood makes up the majority of Chicago so it's more likely for you to see something wild happen or to experience something bad happen to you than here in NYC. Here the hood doesn't even make up half of the city...maybe BARELY 25%. Get a map of the 5 boroughs and color all the hoods and you'll see I'm right. For the most part (notice I said most part), as long as you stay out of certain areas in NYC you'll be ok (even though criminals don't just stay in the confines of their blocks or projects). But for out of towners/new comers/returning residents or naive city data bloggers...don't think that this isn't still a dangerous city overall that can rear it's head with the pull of a trigger.
But the question is what can we do as individuals and as a group to help fix the conditions that exist in these neighborhoods? Nobody ever wants to talk about that.
Some stuuf from today... Homicide | Crotona Park North Marmion Ave Bronx, NY | 8/8/2009 12:41 a.m. Shooting | 670 Castle Hill Ave Bronx, NY | 8/8/2009 12:11 a.m. Shooting | Washington Ave Bronx, NY | 8/7/2009 11:28 p.m. Shooting | 1480 Washington Ave Bronx, NY | 8/7/2009 11:27 p.m. Shooting | 180 St Bronx, NY | 8/7/2009 10:52 p.m. Shooting | W 180th St & University Ave Bronx, NY | 8/7/2009 9:31 p.m. Homicide | 85 Holland Ave Staten Island, NY | 8/7/2009 7:26 p.m.
Shooting | 396 Clifton Pl X Marcy Ave Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 4:45 p.m. Shooting | 175 Fountain Ave Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 11:27 a.m. Shooting | E 18 St Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 5:57 a.m. Shooting | 740 Euclid Ave Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 2:11 a.m. Shooting | Church Ave & E 18th St Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 1:57 a.m. Shooting | 1602 Zerega Av Bronx, NY | 8/7/2009 1:27 a.m. Shooting | E 89 St X N Farragut Rd Brooklyn, NY | 8/7/2009 1:19 a.m.
But the question is what can we do as individuals and as a group to help fix the conditions that exist in these neighborhoods? Nobody ever wants to talk about that.
This is the million dollar question that A LOT of people seem content to ignore. It seems like a lot of people are of the mindset, "well, if we can stay out of those areas/keep those people away from us/etc. then everything is fine," and honestly, in my opinion, everything is NOT fine. I really would love to revitalize the living conditions that many of these people are living in.. I don't know about the crime itself, but I'd love for some of the people in these neighborhoods to be living in areas that aren't deteriorating or falling apart. Let me also add, that I don't mean gentrification.. I would love for new residents to move in, but NOT in the way that gentrification causes, and I'm not a big fan of just building up condos everywhere to make people forget about what already exists in the area.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
" or "Brooklyns great, you can walk right down Franklin Ave...no problemo 
". The only thing different between now and then is the drug trade isn't as out in the open as it was. Back then it was total disregard for law and authority (you know how Brooklyn used to be man). Ghouliani made it so you have to be descreet. Detroit, Chicago, Camden etc are naturally always going to have more murders (by rate) and slightly more crime by the numbers. Why? Because they are not the center of the world. USA cannot function if NYC isn't making money (tourism, real estate etc) so there has to be a strong police prescence and constant empty rhetoric that we're the "safest city in the world" to keep these things intact. The government doesn't care about Camden or Detroit being an absolute wasteland. We can't deny the obvious stat juking (regardless of what people say). I'm not concerned with the "numbers game" and politicians playing the masses with empty rhetoric (ie: "safest city in the world") as I'm concerned with the upliftment of the Moorish (so called "Blacks, Latinos/Hispanics, Native Americans/American Indian) neighborhoods and it's people, which you eluded to at the end of your post.
