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EXACTLY what I try to ALWAYS tell these people on citydata. They don't understand that it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE that numbers can be manipulated for any given result. I honestly would think that they would know this. I'm only 23 years old and most of them are well past 30. Regardless, you can't believe everything you read or hear. Remember stats are mostly BS unless you know EXACTLY how the data was compiled and/or who compiled it. Even after all of that you still have to actually read the information and see if it all makes sense...but I guess that's too much to ask.
Sobro, regarding your last sentence (on post #213) ...you are very uninformed if you believe northern brooklyns crime wasn't high. northern brooklyn's nabes were (and most likely still are) more crime filled than any other part of the city (yes, including the south bronx).
The only neighborhoods in Brooklyn North with violent crime rates as high as in the South or Central Bronx are Bed-Stuy and Brownsville. As a matter of fact, the 41st precinct in the South Bronx (Hunts Point/Longwood) has the highest violent crime rate in the city, even higher than Brownsville. Go and look at the raw stats on the NYPD site yourself. You are very uninformed if you think that the worst of the city's crimes only come from North Brooklyn neighborhoods.
first, i said WERE (and i said probably still are.... 'probably' meaning i don't know for a fact.)
second, i know for a fact that bed stuy, bushwick, eny and brownsville were more dangerous in the 80's and early 90's than your average 'hood in the south bronx.
third, hunts point had less than 10 murders last year, but since it only has like 50,000 people, thats considered 'high'. brownsville, on the other hand, has almost 3 times as many murders (in a smaller area) than hunts point but its skewed since brownsville has more people.
fourth, when did i ever say the worst of the cities crimes come from northern brooklyn? and since you love stats so much, look up how many murders brooklyn north had in 1990 (just a random year) compared to south AND central bronx. fact is, back in the day the bronx was no worse (crime wise, that is) than uptown manhattan or brooklyn north.
Hmm well lets make this a unofficial poll what do you guys think is the worst part of the city
(Crime, Cleanliness, graffiti, drug activity, etc) Uptown, South Bronx, West Bronx, North Brooklyn, or the East Elmhurst-Corona area.
Last edited by KRS88; 05-23-2009 at 11:05 PM..
Reason: Grammar
Hmm well lets make this a unofficial poll what do you guys think is the worst part of the city
(Crime, Quality of life, Cleanliness, abandonment, graffiti, drug activity, etc) Uptown, South Bronx, West Bronx, North Brooklyn, or the East Elmhurst-Corona area.
of course the bronx would win everyone of those, except crime and maybe drugs.
East Elmhurst-Corona takes the title as dirtiest and most graffiti ridden place in the city EASILY theres trash and graffiti EVERYWHERE it litteraly looks like 1984 in parts of that neighborhood.North Brooklyn has the most crime and ....Specifically ENY has shown its the most dangerous part of the city and one of the overall worst places in the country with all the mess that goes on in that neighborhood. The South and West Bronx both are the worst in terms of quality of life and Uptown and the West Bronx tie for biggest drug trade on W 183 St in University Heights is a open air drug market its literaly a "anything you want you can get" type of place and Uptown specifically Crack City Washington Heights and East Harlem are big drug markets but not as big and open as W 183 St.
first, i said WERE (and i said probably still are.... 'probably' meaning i don't know for a fact.)
second, i know for a fact that bed stuy, bushwick, eny and brownsville were more dangerous in the 80's and early 90's than your average 'hood in the south bronx.
The South Bronx was, hands down, the most destroyed area of the city in the 70s. Hundreds of thousands of buildings were torched and crime was unbelievably high. Former President Carter visited the area and called it "the worse neighborhood in the country". And things stayed that way throughout the 80s and 90s. Even today you still find empty lots and a remnants of the arson.
I'm not trying to say Brooklyn doesn't have bad neighborhoods. I'm very aware Brooklyn was never (and still isn't) a stranger to crime, as it was just as bad in some of those areas. But to say they were worse and to pass it off as a fact is just plain lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94
third, hunts point had less than 10 murders last year, but since it only has like 50,000 people, thats considered 'high'. brownsville, on the other hand, has almost 3 times as many murders (in a smaller area) than hunts point but its skewed since brownsville has more people.
Hunts Point is 70% industrial. That means it's residential population is situated in, literally, a few blocks, which is A LOT smaller than Brownsville. Even Longwood is smaller and only is half it's population. Murders in the 41st are also very sporadic. According to the stats, there were 8 murders in 1998. In 2001, there were 12. There were 16 in 2006, 8 in 2007, and only 3 last year. There were at least 2 so far this year, though only 1 has showed up on the stats. Regardless of that, there is still plenty of violent crime going on in the streets. And the stats show it.
For you to say that the 73rd numbers get skewed but the 41st (or any other precinct) doesn't is pretty ridiculous. Don't you think it's a bit contradictory to say that one precinct gets skewed numbers but the other doesn't? Especially considering how you, among others, are presenting these ideas of how the NYPD downgrades it's crimes and doesn't count murders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94
fourth, when did i ever say the worst of the cities crimes come from northern brooklyn? and since you love stats so much, look up how many murders brooklyn north had in 1990 (just a random year) compared to south AND central bronx. fact is, back in the day the bronx was no worse (crime wise, that is) than uptown manhattan or brooklyn north.
In 1990, Brooklyn North had 505 murders with a population of 689,608. The South Bronx (including East Tremont, Fordham, and Uni Heights) had 479 murders with a population of 453,841.
Murder rate for Brooklyn North, 73 out of 100,000.
Murder rate for South Bronx, 105 out of 100,000.
I'd be more willing to trust these numbers due to the fact that they were before the days of compstat.
But I'm still not trying to say the South Bronx is or was the most crime ridden. A ghetto is a ghetto, regardless of where it is. You were the one implying that Brooklyn's neighborhoods were worse with statements like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94
Sobro, regarding your last sentence (on post #213) ...you are very uninformed if you believe northern brooklyns crime wasn't high. northern brooklyn's nabes were (and most likely still are) more crime filled than any other part of the city (yes, including the south bronx).
The fact is, Brooklyn's neighborhoods dealt with the same crime as any other burrough. To be honest, back in those days, the majority of the city was a ghetto. And whether it be the Bronx or Staten Island, crime was a real issue no matter where you were. I'm gonna end it here because I don't want to derail the thread.
Also, I don't want you to feel like I'm trying to start an argument. I said what I had to say and I hope you get what I'm saying.
HP,
1. we aren't talking about the 'most destroyed nabe'. i'm talking about which area had the most crime. of course the south bronx (or the bronx in general) was THE most destroyed boro far and away in the 70's and 80's.
2. never said anything about murder rates. just raw numbers. but the south bronx was still pretty close. so i'm sure there was really no difference in the south bronx (CRIME wise) and north brooklyn. the bronx and brooklyn were probably the most dangerous boroughs in the city. so i'll make this my last post regarding brooklyn vs. the bronx. just wanted to get my point across to the people (not you) who believe north brooklyn never had a high crime rate.
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