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Well, I think it's naive to think that NY would ever leave the gas in the ground. It will be extracted, in spite of the fears of some of the population. They will drill, but it will probably be done in a way that will cause the least fanfare.
Also, much of the fears regarding drilling are unproven; personally I believe they are used as scare tactics to perpetuate an unspoken agenda. If we gain an enourmous amount of natgas, the search for alternative fuels will go on the back burner. I sincerely believe there are folks out there who would bypass the gas opportunities in order to keep the focus on lesser forms of energy.
Personally, I use the 'telephone pole' analogy. Nothing is uglier on the landscape than telephone poles, but we put up with them for the greater good of having telephones in our houses. I imagine people went a little ballistic watching their streets being covered with giant poles and wires, but eventually they just blended into the background.
The only difference being a visible phone pole creates only aesthetic damage as opposed to the potential for water pollution caused by fracking. We can take down a phone pole, but if water polluted in the natural gas extraction process, what will the cost be to find alternative water sources?
I find it curious that people have focused on gas drilling as a contaminating industry, when EVERY industry is contaminating something. The clothes on your back contaminated some water, somewhere. There's got to be more of a reason why the gas industry causes the hysteria it does. It is probably the only industry investment that is a 'sure thing.' Even a low producing well produces millions of dollars in revenue. Is it the money? Are they afraid of new stores, new restaurants, maybe new housing? Upstate doesn't really have a huge tourist business-people in Sullivan county are barely getting by. New restaurants fail much of the time. Touristy spots exist for a season or two, then disappear for lack of traffic. Drilling is a huge stroke of luck. Could it be that the people without much land (probably the majority) don't want drilling because they wouldn't benefit directly? And how can townships attempt to ban drilling, and take all that dough away from landowners? I have friends in PA with about 100 acres who signed a gas lease. They will have no worries for the rest of their lives, their kids will have no college loans to pay off. Why the strong protest against drilling, why not exhaust from cars? Why not the paper industry, which uses chemicals galore. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly believe there must be an underlying jealousy when it comes to drilling. Kind of, "If I get no cookies, neither should you." Strange, but maybe not unusual behavior.
This reads exactly like a gas industry plant trying to convince people to support their cause.
All those other industries aren't contaminating our personal drinking water as the products aren't made in our back yards.....And upstate doesn't have a huge tourist business? The finger lakes wine industry is HUGE and has been growing for years.. Not to mention Lake Ontario, Catskills, Adirondacks.
These people aren't jealous, they have legit concerns based on horrible consequences that have happened in PA.
BTW, I think telephone poles are coated in creosote, or something like that. It must leech into the ground with constant rainfalls. That would most likely wind up in the water. What about lawn chemicals? We even help them along by washing our lawns with water on a regular basis.
I really think all the protests have to do with the money involved, and the power it will wield. The possible pollution angle is probably used as a righteous excuse. It is bewildering, really.
My experience is mostly in Sullivan-probably one of the poorest of the upstate counties. Sorry, not aware of Finger lakes region, etc.
I think also that if you tell people that you "pump chemicals into the ground" it's only logical that they think it will get into the water. The chemicals are a minute percentage of the water used, and they are so far past the aquifer, they can't get into the water. But someone has written that the main fear is spills, which is very real.
I'm not with the industry. I just know so many peeps struggling in upstate NY whose lives are on hold due to the circus of protests. It just seems fishy to me that NY has jumped on this issue so hard. Also, as I've said before, I've lived around drilling for 15 years with few problems, so I'm not afraid of the unknown.
Horrible consequences in PA? All I read about PA is how great the economy is. The Dimock thing was completely disproved. Hasn't the EPA tested repeatedly only to find no water pollution?
Because the gas and oil industry has deep pockets, and health problems are so difficult to pinpoint to a certain cause, I'm sure there will be plenty of lawsuits regarding tainted water, health problems, etc. I can hear the lawyers salivating as I'm typing this.
As I said before in this thread, I've had experience with people who were effected (in PA) by drilling and have actually traveled through some of these towns and have seen the exact opposite of what you say.
If you believe everything the EPA tells you, you really should evaluate that! Them and the USDA have their pockets lined by these companies. Lobbiests fight hard with cash to get things to go their way.
I've had people from Pennsylvania tell me NOT to move there because of the fracking issue. One gentlemen said he has to move because his water IS now contaminated. Does the EPA or the gas company announce this to the world? Heck, no!
At one point in time, NY allowed GE to pour PCBs into the Hudson River. They didn't think it wasn't safe. What do we know now 70 years later? Oh crap that was a bad move and now many areas of the Hudson River have been dredged and other areas have dredging in the works to get the PCBs out of the river.
As for your logistics of how the chemicals are past the aquifer, you didn't pay attention much in geology did you? If you're past something, you have to go THROUGH it to get there!
Why are so many in NY up in arms over fracking? We like our water! NYers LOVE their water. Very few places in the world have the number of lakes that NY has. How many other places in the world have an entire region that is filled with glacial lakes? One of those lakes is only 1 of 6 bodies of water in the ENTIRE US that provides clean drinking water that does not need to be filtered or treated. ONE OF SIX! There are tens of thousands of lakes in this country and there's ONLY 6 that don't need treatment. How sick is that?
In NY, there's thousands of underground streams, creeks, and water movement. You contaminate one of them and you've just contaminated half the state and region because of the way the water flows. You really want to destroy the drinking water for 20 million people? I certainly wouldn't want to! Why take the chance?
Why would NY want to look like Texas with all of those hideous wells all over? NY has gorgeous scenery that Mother Nature has provided. The Adirondack Park the largest state owned park in the US and is the largest National Historic Landmark in the world. Why would we that to be trashed? While the Park is protected as is the Catskill Park, there are many other areas of the state that are just as gorgeous and should be treasured.
I currently live in a state where there is not one single nature lake. All of the lakes here are manmade for power plants. The majority of which are nuclear...not so keen on taking a dip with a nuclear reactor in view, but hey that's just me. This state has also been in a drought for over 10 years. Coming from Upstate NY where there's water EVERYWHERE this water issue is just shocking! I can't even grow grass in my backyard because it's all sand and we have severe water restrictions. Water is also very expensive here compared to NY. It doesn't grow on trees after all.
Remember, everything is fine and perfectly safe according the government and these companies. Yup, and I've got a pot of gold at the bottom of a rainbow on bridge for sale.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roskybosky
I find it curious that people have focused on gas drilling as a contaminating industry, when EVERY industry is contaminating something. The clothes on your back contaminated some water, somewhere. There's got to be more of a reason why the gas industry causes the hysteria it does. It is probably the only industry investment that is a 'sure thing.' Even a low producing well produces millions of dollars in revenue. Is it the money? Are they afraid of new stores, new restaurants, maybe new housing? Upstate doesn't really have a huge tourist business-people in Sullivan county are barely getting by. New restaurants fail much of the time. Touristy spots exist for a season or two, then disappear for lack of traffic. Drilling is a huge stroke of luck. Could it be that the people without much land (probably the majority) don't want drilling because they wouldn't benefit directly? And how can townships attempt to ban drilling, and take all that dough away from landowners? I have friends in PA with about 100 acres who signed a gas lease. They will have no worries for the rest of their lives, their kids will have no college loans to pay off. Why the strong protest against drilling, why not exhaust from cars? Why not the paper industry, which uses chemicals galore. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly believe there must be an underlying jealousy when it comes to drilling. Kind of, "If I get no cookies, neither should you." Strange, but maybe not unusual behavior.
Perhaps when you look at it this is the first heavy industry in a long time that is looking to enter into these predominetly rural areas....
One thing I have notices when farm land is sold for development everone complains that there are too many houses already and it should remain as farm land. For the land owner they would have to take a significant loss if they could even sell it as a farm. Now when the next person sells even though he fought the previous sale it’s now his turn and he’s not going to lose out on the money. It’s sort of like a NIMBY, everone wants their share but no one else can do it.
Last edited by VA Yankee; 05-03-2012 at 10:31 AM..
BTW, I think telephone poles are coated in creosote, or something like that. It must leech into the ground with constant rainfalls. That would most likely wind up in the water. What about lawn chemicals? We even help them along by washing our lawns with water on a regular basis.
Actually, many people in NY don't put chemicals on their lawns. The majority of the chemicals that are used run off with the surface water and go into the sewers are treated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roskybosky
I find it curious that people have focused on gas drilling as a contaminating industry, when EVERY industry is contaminating something. The clothes on your back contaminated some water, somewhere. There's got to be more of a reason why the gas industry causes the hysteria it does. It is probably the only industry investment that is a 'sure thing.' Even a low producing well produces millions of dollars in revenue. Is it the money? Are they afraid of new stores, new restaurants, maybe new housing? Upstate doesn't really have a huge tourist business-people in Sullivan county are barely getting by. New restaurants fail much of the time. Touristy spots exist for a season or two, then disappear for lack of traffic. Drilling is a huge stroke of luck. Could it be that the people without much land (probably the majority) don't want drilling because they wouldn't benefit directly? And how can townships attempt to ban drilling, and take all that dough away from landowners? I have friends in PA with about 100 acres who signed a gas lease. They will have no worries for the rest of their lives, their kids will have no college loans to pay off. Why the strong protest against drilling, why not exhaust from cars? Why not the paper industry, which uses chemicals galore. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly believe there must be an underlying jealousy when it comes to drilling. Kind of, "If I get no cookies, neither should you." Strange, but maybe not unusual behavior.
People in the US are concerned about the chemicals used in clothing. Very little clothing is made here. So most of it's a not my backyard issue.
Apparently, you don't know much about NY. Upstate has many tourist areas and towns. Many of which have ben around since the 1800's as tourist destinations. People from around the world come to places like Lake George, Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, Saratoga Springs, Skaneateles, Skaneateles Lake, Cazenovia, Cazenovia Lake, Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Ithaca, Cananadaigua Lake, Plattsburgh, Old Forge, Raquette Lake, Ausable, Niagara Falls, etc.
Your friends in PA "will have no worries for the rest of their lives"? Currently, they may not financially. There's a lot more to living than finances. Humans cannot live without water. That is a scientific fact.
The paper industry is HEAVILY regulated. There are many companies who have had to do clean ups as well as the state and EPA because of past practices. Many of those practices were before the current regulations. The fines for doing so now are high and the companies now must clean up immediately.
And a big, fat NO I am not in any way, shape, or form jealous of PA's contaminated water and destroyed scenery nor am I jealous of WV's blown off mountain tops and contamination from fracking.
All one needs to do is a little research using Google and you'll find numerous things not reporting by CNN. There have been numerous contamination incidents which many people think nothing of. All of that crap is trucked in and trucked out. Many trucks have had accidents and spilled that contaminated sludge. I don't want that crap in my water! This has NOTHING to do with jealousy. It has to do with needing CLEAN, SAFE drinking water!
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