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Winter is not for me either. I can tolerate it when I work indoors, but last winter I was working 4-5 days a week outside, starting at 6 am most days. 32* is one thing, -5* below zero is another. I don't care what anyone says, working outside day after day, no matter how bundled up, is going to impact your health.
This is the most miserable time of year here. I get its the change of seasons and every season has a purpose, but the short days are just brutal. At least its been in the 60's.
I hate to call you out, but this post is just an absolute lie. When does it ever reach below zero in New York State?
Maybe at the peak of the Adirondacks. All the upstate cities average less than five mornings per year of subzero weather. The daytime winter highs are usually 25-35. Downstate is even warmer.
Doom and gloom rhetoric is nice, but it makes for a poor argument.
And no, cold is not bad for your health. On the contrary. Cold increases the immune response and kills harmful viruses (they freeze). Think of all the flu running around in the South.
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Originally Posted by VintageSunlight
I'm intrigued by Arizona thanks to Ex-NYer but yeah, Las Vegas is not, nor will it ever be for me. The sprawl was mind boggling. In NY, NJ you have plenty of sprawl but its usually relegated to main roads. Rarely do you see neighborhood streets with sprawl in NJ/NY. In LV, it was even on tertiary street, like garish yellow signs blasting your bedroom window when you wake up. No thanks!
Northern California / Central Coast is just so amazing, landscape wise. I dig New England too so I'm glad I live near that too.
Yes, one of the things I like about NY / NJ is the quaint neighborhoods and less sprawl.
And no, cold is not bad for your health. On the contrary. Cold increases the immune response and kills harmful viruses (they freeze). Think of all the flu running around in the South.
The influenza virus thrives in cold, dry temperatures unlike other pathogens. That's why winter is considered flu season.
For those who have arthritis and eczema, cold weather makes it worse. It depends on what health condition you're talking about.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Only the rich can afford it, really.
Most of Costal California near the major cities is hella expensive. Inland smaller cities have a much lower living cost. Cost of living in Sacramento is about on par with Colorado or South Florida, only more taxes.
I hate to call you out, but this post is just an absolute lie. When does it ever reach below zero in New York State?
Maybe at the peak of the Adirondacks. All the upstate cities average less than five mornings per year of subzero weather. The daytime winter highs are usually 25-35. Downstate is even warmer.
Doom and gloom rhetoric is nice, but it makes for a poor argument.
And no, cold is not bad for your health. On the contrary. Cold increases the immune response and kills harmful viruses (they freeze). Think of all the flu running around in the South.
Yes, one of the things I like about NY / NJ is the quaint neighborhoods and less sprawl.
Only the rich can afford it, really.
Relax dude, there's no need to be hostile.
It was most definitely -5* below zero last winter, I know because I was outside in it at 6:00 am. I'm not saying it was -5 all day, but in the morning it most certainly was. And lastly, I was in Sussex County, NJ; not NY, which is 1800 ft above sea level, and I assure you it was *that cold* on several different days.
As you admit, you get 5 days below zero, so I don't even understand what you are arguing.
I don't like winter all that much. That's my opinion. Deal with it. It has nothing to do with "doom and gloom". You seem to enjoy being contrarian with everyone on here, even if they're just having a polite discussion. Leave me out of it.
Cold weather doesn't feel great for my well-being. It causes my joints to creak and get stiff. It feels arthritic to me. My lungs hurt last winter from breathing cold air for 10 straight hours a day. Some people develop a winter cough, if they have asthma. YMMV, but I think I know my own health and how cold can make me feel. If you feel great in those Buffalo winters, kudos to you.
Lastly, I wasn't referring to viruses, but its well known that viruses are far more common in winter as well. Dry indoor air keeps them airborne and people are generally indoors a lot more.
It was most definitely -5* below zero last winter, I know because I was outside in it at 6:00 am. I'm not saying it was -5 all day, but in the morning it most certainly was. And lastly, I was in Sussex County, NJ; not NY, which is 1800 ft above sea level, and I assure you it was *that cold* on several different days.
I remember having to go out to go to work early in the morning during the winter having to scrape the ice off the windshield, fingers numb, grabbing a frozen steering wheel and driving to work while sitting in a refrigerator until it warmed up. Couldn't see wasting gas letting it idle outside until it got warm. Whether it's -5 or +5 cold is cold. Coldest I've ever been was in Vermont where it was -13, you couldn't breath. Hottest was +118 in the Mojave Desert south of Kingman. Just had to experience it, it's amazing that anything can grow out there. You really don't sweat that much as in New York, but it does suck the moisture right out of you. We still go out to the desert mostly the Sonoran, during the summer and year round. The Mojave Desert is more barren than the Sonoran Desert, both are just as hot. You know that you're in the Mojave Desert when there are no more Saguaro Cactus replaced by Joshua trees and creosote bushes, parts of it there has hardly any vegetation just rock formations. Along Highway 93 you have a combination of both, where the Sonoran and Mojave intertwine, an awesome sight indeed. You do have to bring at least a days supply of water in case you broke down on the highway or got stuck out on the desert trails while waiting for rescue. Oh, God how we love it though! Where we are in central Arizona winter days are usually in the 50's, some 60's and 70's sprinkled in between, 20's and some teens at night. Because of the low humidity it's not unusual to be wearing a long sleeve shirt or sweatshirt outside during those days. Summers are in the upper 80's and 90's during the day low 60's at night, sometimes in the 50's.
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An armed society is a polite society
Guns have always been a way of life in Arizona. Another reason why I'm here. While there is some merit to that statement. I've found that out here people aren't as uptight as when living in New York. Carrying a gun out here is just as natural as carrying your wallet. Although it does happen, you rarely hear of people using guns out here to settle minor disputes. At least no more than where gun laws are more restrictive. Most of those are drug and alcohol fueled to begin with. Which in my opinion is the real problem. Why should law abiding people have to relinquish their rights because of the actions of the guilty? A lot of us are transplants from other parts of the country and are here because they want to be here. It's like having a tremendous burden lifted off of your shoulders especially when coming from New York. People wave to you on the street, it's easy to strike up conversations with people and we were surprised at how quickly we made friends out here, having not knowing anyone before we moved here. Not saying there are not miserable people out here also, they are everywhere. But I've yet to encounter that many of them out here as I did in New York. Maybe it's just the overall stress of just trying to keep your head above water in New York, I don't know.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 11-08-2014 at 09:02 AM..
I remember having to go out to go to work early in the morning during the winter having to scrape the ice off the windshield, fingers numb, grabbing a frozen steering wheel and driving to work while sitting in a refrigerator until it warmed up. Couldn't see wasting gas letting it idle outside until it got warm. Whether it's -5 or +5 cold is cold. Coldest I've ever been was in Vermont where it was -13, you couldn't breath. Hottest was +118 in the Mojave Desert south of Kingman. Just had to experience it, it's amazing that anything can grow out there. You really don't sweat that much as in New York, but it does suck the moisture right out of you. We still go out to the desert mostly the Sonoran, during the summer and year round. The Mojave Desert is more barren than the Sonoran Desert, both are just as hot. You know that you're in the Mojave Desert when there are no more Saguaro Cactus replaced by Joshua trees and creosote bushes, parts of it there has hardly any vegetation just rock formations. Along Highway 93 you have a combination of both, where the Sonoran and Mojave intertwine, an awesome sight indeed. You do have to bring at least a days supply of water in case you broke down on the highway or got stuck out on the desert trails while waiting for rescue. Oh, God how we love it though! Where we are in central Arizona winter days are usually in the 50's, some 60's and 70's sprinkled in between, 20's and some teens at night. Because of the low humidity it's not unusual to be wearing a long sleeve shirt or sweatshirt outside during those days. Summers are in the upper 80's and 90's during the day low 60's at night, sometimes in the 50's.
Guns have always been a way of life in Arizona. Another reason why I'm here. While there is some merit to that statement. I've found that out here people aren't as uptight as when living in New York. Carrying a gun out here is just as natural as carrying your wallet. Although it does happen, you rarely hear of people using guns out here to settle minor disputes. At least no more than where gun laws are more restrictive. Most of those are drug and alcohol fueled to begin with. Which in my opinion is the real problem. Why should law abiding people have to relinquish their rights because of the actions of the guilty? A lot of us are transplants from other parts of the country and are here because they want to be here. It's like having a tremendous burden lifted off of your shoulders especially when coming from New York. People wave to you on the street, it's easy to strike up conversations with people and we were surprised at how quickly we made friends out here, having not knowing anyone before we moved here. Not saying there are not miserable people out here also, they are everywhere. But I've yet to encounter that many of them out here as I did in New York. Maybe it's just the overall stress of just trying to keep your head above water in New York, I don't know.
Based on your first paragraph, it sounds like a great place to live. You should consider yourself very lucky to be able to live in natural beauty, great weather, and not have to live in the Phoenix or Las Vegas metro. As for me, I would almost definitely have to live there, as my projects tend to be based in areas of larger populations / more industry. So for me, I'd be needing to live in Phoenix or LV and I could never see myself enjoying it there.
I've run the numbers as well, and no place pays like here. Not even California, for the work I do. I do environmental work and the tri-state area is so polluted that there's always work here. Luckily, I don't have to live among it either. So my water is clean as is the land, and I can commute where its bad. The $25k pay cut in most others areas is not worth it, also its not as steady work. You can't really outsource pollution. I'll pay $10k more a year in costs here for a $25k increase in salary. Add in that my fiance also makes $25k more here, and its numbers you can't ignore.
The gun issue is kinda a side issue for me. I don't mind people having guns at all. I know people who carry in PA because of the lax laws who are very unstable and NJ/NY would do a better background check. So, that's really all I'm in favor of.
Based on your first paragraph, it sounds like a great place to live.
Indeed it is! However everyone has their own idea of what paradise is. Some love the coast line, some love winter etc. The great thing about where you live and where I used to live is that your home is worth more money than in most parts of the country. This allows you, when the time comes to pretty much live live wherever you want to, giving you more house buying dollars and the opportunity to live in a better home and neighborhood in another state. I probably mentioned it but I've always wanted to live in the Southwest, Arizona in particular and indeed do feel blessed to be able to achieve that dream and not be disappointed in the least. Anyway, you can look forward to the day that you can retire. We are self employed and had our opportunity to leave the Northeast well before that. If you like it where you are that's great. If not when the time is right you can always leave. Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will be able to find your own personal paradise as we have found ours.
As far as guns go, I have no problem with background checks. You have to go through the NICS (National Instant Check System) even in states with lenient gun laws. The problem I have with states like New York is all the additional unnecessary aggravation and bureaucratic nonsense just to own a handgun for self protection. I had a concealed weapons permit in New York State. I also have one in Arizona even though it is not required by law, for reciprocity purposes with other states. Arizona is a "Shall Issue State". Meaning that the issuance of permits is not left up to the discretion of some anti-gun bureaucrat such as New York. Which leads in some cases to the issuance of "unrestricted" permits to celebrities, friends, relatives and the politically well connected. The hell with anyone else. Their lives are just not that important. New York City is notorious for this. Yes there are people that shouldn't have guns no question about it. Just as there are people who should never be allowed to get behind the wheel, into a bar, get married, have children, pets etc. You just can't legislate human behavior without having to sacrifice all of our freedoms at the risk of living in a police state, it will always be there. For good or bad.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 11-10-2014 at 10:04 AM..
Subzero to me means below freezing, i.e. below 0 Centigrade. Having grown up in a Celsius country, I've found myself Celsius for winter temperatures and Farenheit for summer temps!
Indeed it is! However everyone has their own idea of what paradise is. Some love the coast line, some love winter etc. The great thing about where you live and where I used to live is that your home is worth more money than in most parts of the country. This allows you, when the time comes to pretty much live live wherever you want to, giving you more house buying dollars and the opportunity to live in a better home and neighborhood in another state. I probably mentioned it but I've always wanted to live in the Southwest, Arizona in particular and indeed do feel blessed to be able to achieve that dream and not be disappointed in the least. Anyway, you can look forward to the day that you can retire. We are self employed and had our opportunity to leave the Northeast well before that. If you like it where you are that's great. If not when the time is right you can always leave. Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will be able to find your own personal paradise as we have found ours.
As far as guns go, I have no problem with background checks. You have to go through the NICS (National Instant Check System) even in states with lenient gun laws. The problem I have with states like New York is all the additional unnecessary aggravation and bureaucratic nonsense just to own a handgun for self protection. I had a concealed weapons permit in New York State. I also have one in Arizona even though it is not required by law, for reciprocity purposes with other states. Arizona is a "Shall Issue State". Meaning that the issuance of permits is not left up to the discretion of some anti-gun bureaucrat such as New York. Which leads in some cases to the issuance of "unrestricted" permits to celebrities, friends, relatives and the politically well connected. The hell with anyone else. Their lives are just not that important. New York City is notorious for this. Yes there are people that shouldn't have guns no question about it. Just as there are people who should never be allowed to get behind the wheel, into a bar, get married, have children, pets etc. You just can't legislate human behavior without having to sacrifice all of our freedoms at the risk of living in a police state, it will always be there. For good or bad.
I can tell you, nothing is really paradise here. Its more "a convenient place to live to earn a salary". As far as the housing cost, the biggest issue is that I probably can't afford a house here anymore, or anytime soon. I've been renting for a long time, rents are so high you really can't afford to save anything. I see people here pulling down $150k a year combined and living in ugly brick garden apartments. So, that advantage even goes away since renting is really the only way in my situation.
One can live Upstate but salaries are dramatically lower than here. I know, I've looked. So, making $20-25k less but cost of living might only be $15k less a year. Its a wash at best. Though I admit, many places Upstate are much nicer if you like nature and less harried pace.
I once owned a house here and it was tough. Most housing is old and needs a lot of work. So many homes have no real insulation and are either oil heated or electric heated. Oil costs $3000 a typical winter, since most of it is going out the leaky frame, and electric heat can be equal or more in cost. Of course, the areas connected to the natural gas grid tend to cost more and be in more urban areas. So, its $500k for a nice new home connected to gas (and $12k in taxes), or $300k for a old, crappy home that needs a ton of work with oil heat.
So, for now I'm here and making the best of it. There are good things here but if I was self employed and could work anywhere, I'd be outta here so fast your head would spin!
BTW, I agree about how NY handgun laws definitely favor the rich and connected. No doubt. I can see how a shall issue state makes more sense than a may issue state.
Last edited by VintageSunlight; 11-16-2014 at 04:58 PM..
Just wondering, Ex- New Yorker, where would you recommend out West for me? If I was looking to move, and you seem to know the West pretty well and I appreciate your demeanor. I am a Green Party democrat, with interests in organic foods, organic wholesome living, lots of sunlight, healthy living. I'd also like a place a little cheaper or right at that national average for home prices and salaries. I do like some greenery.
I have a feeling Denver would suit me well, but I'd be interested in hearing about other areas in AZ or NM.
So many individual factors at play.
I live in rural upstate (the Southern Tier), and I know it isn't "perfect." Taxes are high, gas prices are ridiculous (in part because of taxes!), the weather can be crummy. But....we both have jobs we enjoy, we are close(ish) to some family, we can afford a home and childcare for our daughter. Given the fields we are in, I don't see either of us getting a $20-25k increase in pay by moving to a larger metro - in fact, there have a been a few times when we've researched what we might make elsewhere, and I think the biggest jump we saw was around $10k, accompanied by a tripling or so of housing prices and other commodities. And we both have master's degrees and work in our fields, it isn't as if I'm comparing minimum-wage type jobs! (Also, I'd challenge the "$50,000 for a house in Elmira" statement - I think to get a nicer house in a good neighborhood you'll be spending closer to twice that. However, I know from talking to friends who live in more urban areas - like the suburbs of Boston - that what I can get for 100k here is 250k or higher there.)
Anyway, we like it here. Besides the jobs, the housing, and the family proximity, our children will be in a decent school district (not to say that other states don't have those as well), and will grow up as "outdoorsy" as possible. We're closing in on our 40s, and see no reason to tip the apple cart at this point. Maybe when our children are grown, or if something drastic were to change, we'll reconsider.
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