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I think much of upstates demise was not looking long term at the region as a whole. Much of the factory town mentality (I grew up near smaller ones in CT) is that there always is an underlying denial (out of fear..or maybe faith) that the industry will stay in town and be loyal to the community. Other symptoms of that are not seeing the future of industries...Kodak (for example) is a classic example of milking a cash cow with film and turning a blind eye to the digital revolution that was clearly coming along. Other industries have just moved manufacturing overseas...which is really something that is within a larger economic evolution. However, this type of scenario was going on for years in several industries (clothing, toys etc...). I think the global economy was always in the back of the minds of people...but they didnt believe it could effect upstate. Or just chose not to believe it. Its not just in making things...it effects the farmings world too...much of which has been gutted by the corporate owners that often have no tie to a community.
I think because upstate had such a rich manufacturing base...the visual casualties of blight are much more graphic in the urban areas. Some of the rust belt cities have a real harshness that I'm not really used to. That has to effect people that have lived in these once-thriving communities. My cousin grew up in Syracuse..which was once a really prosperous area. Without offending anyone...the only feelings he gets driving through there is melancholy and sadness....knowing what was there in the 50's.
NYC is not what caused industry to leave upstate NY. Industry left CT, RI, MI, OH as well...much of it is gone in the USA.
Their LOCAL government should be looking out for their needs & be their ears, eyes & voice in state government. That's why they're there & getting paid.
IMO if there's a partiality to NYC with the ignoring of the rural sections, then the local government needs to fight harder, louder & stronger to get their fair share for their areas. (sounds like everyday life doesn't it??)
My dad died in '76 & before he died he told me when I reached his age, there'd only be the poor & the rich because the middle-class working slobs were going the way of the dinosaur & greed & corruption were taking over. Well, I'm a middle-class working slob still & I'll be darned if me or all the folks I know are going to disappear without a fight to get a fair share while the politicians (who WE pay to work for US) lie cheat & steal & get rich.
If I don't do my job, I get fired. The same applies for politicians...if their area is not getting fair due, the taxpayers need to make their voices heard & get someone who'll do the job. Again, CHOOSING to get involved to make life better.
The politicians do try, but it doesn't matter, the state doesn't really care what happens upstate. Think about this, there are 18 million or so people in New York State, there are 7 million or so in NYC itself, as well as close to 18 million in the NYC Metro area. So, how many people are outside of that area? And think about how large that area is. It is VERY sparse. All of Chautauqua County only has 140,000 people. Those people, no matter how hard they fight are going to change minds that are focused on those 7-18 million down in the nyc area. Its been like that forever, and will be, until they are given more autonomy in their politics. Unless they secede from the state, that isn't happening. On top of that, its not like any of these people can go to Albany and protest or anything, its 6 hours away.
Trust me, plenty of people have tried to change it, plenty of people have run for local and county offices to try and make a change. It doesn't work. We would need a HUGE tax break, and the state isn't willing to allow that.
Which is why i left, which is sad, because i was one of the few who loved it.
The politicians do try, but it doesn't matter, the state doesn't really care what happens upstate. Think about this, there are 18 million or so people in New York State, there are 7 million or so in NYC itself, as well as close to 18 million in the NYC Metro area. So, how many people are outside of that area? And think about how large that area is. It is VERY sparse. All of Chautauqua County only has 140,000 people. Those people, no matter how hard they fight are going to change minds that are focused on those 7-18 million down in the nyc area. Its been like that forever, and will be, until they are given more autonomy in their politics. Unless they secede from the state, that isn't happening. On top of that, its not like any of these people can go to Albany and protest or anything, its 6 hours away.
Trust me, plenty of people have tried to change it, plenty of people have run for local and county offices to try and make a change. It doesn't work. We would need a HUGE tax break, and the state isn't willing to allow that.
Which is why i left, which is sad, because i was one of the few who loved it.
Change is never easy whether for good or ill. I understand your sadness at leaving a place that was "home" to you.
My decision to leave NY was for medical issue...I had sinus headaches & infections from Oct-May beacuse of the weather fluctuations & pressure changes. The doctors recommended a more "stable" climate & so off to Fla I went.
The weather never bothered me until my mid-30's, & as time went on it was unbearable for almost 2/3 of the year. I hated to leave the area I'd lived for over 40 years plus all my friends & relatives, but as none of the "cures" worked for me, it was a necessity.
I've had a total of 3 headaches & no infections since I moved here & feel alive again. That doesn't diminish missing parts of NY though.
I agree that NY's taxes are ridiculous & something has to be done. My friends live in Poughkeepsie, & they don't know if they'll be able to afford to live there 10 years from now!! They pay 4 times the amount I do here in Fla!!
Hopefully, these rural areas will get the attention they need!!
Wonder if the "power" of the media might be helpful??
They are strugging to get by, they don't have the time and energy or resources to set up clubs, etc. They are trying to make it to the end of the month.
North Easter's? If you meant a noreaster, why would anyone complain about that?
Come on... the topic is why do people in the upstate NY (north east) complain & stay.
I'll amend my comments now to say- because they want to. More of "it's not my fault" works for most people.
Come on... the topic is why do people in the upstate NY (north east) complain & stay.
Yeah, And?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstate Dave
I'll amend my comments now to say- because they want to. More of "it's not my fault" works for most people.
I think many of the people have actually tried. When you don't have a job, or are only making minimum wage or slightly more, you don't have the money to move away. You don't have the resources to change your surroundings. You can try, but you aren't going to get very far. The small towns don't have the resources to make much of a difference. Not when the tax burden is so high and there are no businesses left. The people don't make enough money to spend money at local businesses which means more people go out of business which means less jobs. Its a vicious cycle. I had a bachelors degree, and there was not a single job. I had to drive an hour to Buffalo just to make $12/hour.
In this area of the state, if someone goes to college, you most likely will never see them again, because they don't come back. The ones who don't or can't go to college are stuck here forever. And, its not like anyone is moving in to take their place. It sucks, because honestly I would rather be there than anywhere else. Who knows, maybe I will become a farmer.
Looks like oktaren just proved your point, upstate dave.
Like I said earlier, a lot of people like to use the area as a scapegoat. Notice on your college diploma, it doesn't read "Job Entitlement Ticket." You have to really try, and when things still don't work out, you have to try even harder. Be proactive. Be creative. Don't just give up and blame it on the place you live. Yeah, it's easier than taking a good hard look at yourself, but we have enough leeches/whiners in Upstate. So don't be one.
Oktaren--are you serious? You didn't even understand Upstate Dave's post. By North Easter's, he meant people living in the Northeast, not the storm! Which is why he said:
"Come on... the topic is why do people in the upstate NY (north east) complain & stay."
In other words, read more carefully.
Secondly, Famous Dave said "I'll amend my comments now to say- because they want to. More of 'it's not my fault' works for most people."
You then proceeded to list excuses that a hypothetical miserable person would provide as evidence to why "it's not their fault" that they remain miserable in Upstate. They can't afford to move, they can't change anything, etc. etc.
Here's the point. People need not be miserable in Upstate. They are not stuck here, no matter what they say. They have opportunities just like the rest of us, and yes, maybe the repercussions of taking up one of those opportunities is daunting, but in the end, you are in control of your own life.
My grandfather was a psychiatric nurse. When the family would complain, he'd walk around the house saying... "it's all in your head".
(But grampa, I think I needed that finger I just cut off! LOL)
Stepping outside the problems our country has, and looking at things from a sociologist perspective, people left economically frustrated too long will resort to a myriad of destructive behavior or resign themselves to as-is cynicism.
I think folks in general, no matter where they are, have many unrealistic expectations about what government is responsible for, and where their own willpower needs to take charge. These boundary issues become a psychological quagmire some spend their whole lives in.
I've had arguments with my maker often about what a flub it was to face the eyes of human beings outward instead of inward. Sets them on a path of chasing everyone down to control others, instead of controlling themselves.
When personal energy we all have is channeled into constructive endeavors, folks are generally happy. It's the path upward, instead of chasing greener grass elsewhere, only to face the same disappointed expectations again.
Let's pretend I were governor, and will be writing you a check for $50 million from the NYS piggy bank taxes to do with as you please.
How would you deliver the changes you want to see happen so that economic welfare from the rest of the state won't be neccessary anymore? The one condition I'd impose on you is that it has to be sustainable, not a one trick pony.
oppsie, post #29 was responding to junglegeorge and oktaren in post#23
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