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I come from England - and I can't help noticing the difference between the countryside there and the Catskills (which we often go to skiing and hiking). Firstly "old" does not seem to be valued here in the Catskills. The amount of disintegrating beautiful old houses, and some farm buildings, is astounding. In the UK old places are snapped up and come at a premium - you can't make history in a new house but you can buy it in an old house. Here it seems just knock it down and replace it with some godawful ranch house.
I think there are several reasons for that. Some economic, some location based. I see plenty of old "falling down" farm buildings, but these are building being replaced by new ones. The old ones are usually 100+ year old pole barns that have have reached the end of their life. Many of these buildings were built from available local materials in the most economical way possible.
Economic conditions in many areas have resulted in some of the old farm houses falling into disrepair. Any well off usually wouldn't want to live in a beautiful "old" farm house... they were originally built as utilitarian structures - small rooms, minimal living space. I have been in several "period" homes in very nice condition. I couldn't imagine myself living in such cramped conditions.
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The second thing, and this is odd considering that Americans are more friendly than the English on a population level, is the peculiar atmosphere of the Catskills. The English countryside is welcoming and friendly. The Catskill population (I am sure there are multiple exceptions of course...) come across ....differently.
There is a reason for this. In general, much has to do with the history and proximity to NYC. This is a very broad generalization, but the folks up there as wary of outsiders. Many have lived there for all/most of their lives, if not for generations. Their way of life is different from "downstate." This urban vs rural thing is natural.
First problem is the NYC DEP. NYC has a tremendous amount of control over the watershed region. They all but eliminate the possibility of any development. Residents feel this is a major block to any economic recovery. All so NYC can have drinking water without having to pay for their own filtration plants. At one point NYC DEP police were writing traffic tickets in the area. Can you blame the residents for having a chip on their shoulder?
Next, you have plenty of downstaters coming up there buying second homes. They move up there because they like the "country life"... then immediately start telling the residents how to live. The bring their city lifestyle with them and try to change the country to be more city like. This happen quite often and the residents resent it.
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No trespassing signs all over, isolation and hermits seems to be the order of the day.
Don't take this personally, but thinking like this is exactly why it is you and not them.
Why do you think those signs are up? Because DOWNSTATE hunters come up in droves and trespass on private land. When I took my hunter safety course on LI, the _LI_ hunter/teachers were explaining (what they thought were) loopholes in trespassing laws... basically promoting hunting on private property without permission. As an upstate landowner, this drove me nuts. My entire property is now clearly posted. I see one of these goons on my land and I'm on the phone with DEC. Let them lose their hunting privileges.
By contrast, my "local" neighbors stop by and ASK permission to hunt my land. Generally limited use such as opening weekend only. They offer me deer meat from their harvest as compensation.
These are honest people who don't sneak around and trespass. These are the same type of people who watch my property for me while I am downstate and call me when they see something suspicious. Can't say my LI neighbors would do the same. Down here most can't see past their own nose.
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The countryside ends up feeling more sinister than bucolic. Instead of a group of people that are social humans but want to enjoy the delights of nature and space, you seem to have more than a fair share of misanthropes.
I've been living up there part time for several years and have experienced the exact opposite. Sure, at first I was greeting with suspicion (flatlander). That changed when they saw I was there to fit in with the existing norms and not bring a new set of norms to force on them.
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Add the whole gun prevalence on top of that....
Again, I don't mean it as a personal attack - but this is a problem with you, not them. What's wrong with guns? Many people up there hunt not just as a hobby, but to fill their freezer. Your preconceived, media driven notions about guns and the people that own them has set you up for failure in the region. How can one expect to be accepted by people whom the look down upon?
The "whole gun prevalence" makes me feel considerably safer. An armed society is a polite society. My home is much less likely to be broken into if they think I am armed. My dogs are safer when I can deal with coyotes myself.
Try (sincerely) complimenting the neighbor's 30-06 sitting on the passenger seat and show an interest in their passion for hunting. I bet you will be greeted with a smile and a 1/2 hour friendly discussion. Turn your nose up at their way of life and you should expect a cold reception.
The only people I have met up there that I had an issue with is "city folk" transplants who think they are morally and intellectually superior and want to save everyone else. If they had their way, all the farmers would be cast out so they could "gentrify" the area and populate it with hipsters in skinny jeans. That, of course, would turn it into yet another urban-type development and the hipsters would then look for another area to fix.
I think when alot of people think of a get-away they want fresh air, views, etc. but still want their internet and maybe some restaurants and other places to have some drinks and hang out.
A few years back, it was a real task to find a decent place to eat. In recent years, that has changed for the better. There are some very good options in Delhi, Bloomville, Hobart, among others. Head up to Oneonta and there is also some improvement in shopping/eating.
Internet - I couldn't agree more. Broadband is no longer a luxury. Rural upstate is vastly underserved. NYS has implemented an initiative with grant money to build out service to rural areas. Several contracts were awarded and I know that companies are building a fiber network in rural Delaware county. It moves at a snail's pace, but at least the need has been recognized.
Kids today cannot properly prepare for the real world without broadband. You cannot bring business or jobs to an area without broadband.
I think there are several reasons for that. Some economic, some location based. I see plenty of old "falling down" farm buildings, but these are building being replaced by new ones. The old ones are usually 100+ year old pole barns that have have reached the end of their life. Many of these buildings were built from available local materials in the most economical way possible.
Economic conditions in many areas have resulted in some of the old farm houses falling into disrepair. Any well off usually wouldn't want to live in a beautiful "old" farm house... they were originally built as utilitarian structures - small rooms, minimal living space. I have been in several "period" homes in very nice condition. I couldn't imagine myself living in such cramped conditions.
There is a reason for this. In general, much has to do with the history and proximity to NYC. This is a very broad generalization, but the folks up there as wary of outsiders. Many have lived there for all/most of their lives, if not for generations. Their way of life is different from "downstate." This urban vs rural thing is natural.
First problem is the NYC DEP. NYC has a tremendous amount of control over the watershed region. They all but eliminate the possibility of any development. Residents feel this is a major block to any economic recovery. All so NYC can have drinking water without having to pay for their own filtration plants. At one point NYC DEP police were writing traffic tickets in the area. Can you blame the residents for having a chip on their shoulder?
Next, you have plenty of downstaters coming up there buying second homes. They move up there because they like the "country life"... then immediately start telling the residents how to live. The bring their city lifestyle with them and try to change the country to be more city like. This happen quite often and the residents resent it.
Don't take this personally, but thinking like this is exactly why it is you and not them.
Why do you think those signs are up? Because DOWNSTATE hunters come up in droves and trespass on private land. When I took my hunter safety course on LI, the _LI_ hunter/teachers were explaining (what they thought were) loopholes in trespassing laws... basically promoting hunting on private property without permission. As an upstate landowner, this drove me nuts. My entire property is now clearly posted. I see one of these goons on my land and I'm on the phone with DEC. Let them lose their hunting privileges.
By contrast, my "local" neighbors stop by and ASK permission to hunt my land. Generally limited use such as opening weekend only. They offer me deer meat from their harvest as compensation.
These are honest people who don't sneak around and trespass. These are the same type of people who watch my property for me while I am downstate and call me when they see something suspicious. Can't say my LI neighbors would do the same. Down here most can't see past their own nose.
I've been living up there part time for several years and have experienced the exact opposite. Sure, at first I was greeting with suspicion (flatlander). That changed when they saw I was there to fit in with the existing norms and not bring a new set of norms to force on them.
Again, I don't mean it as a personal attack - but this is a problem with you, not them. What's wrong with guns? Many people up there hunt not just as a hobby, but to fill their freezer. Your preconceived, media driven notions about guns and the people that own them has set you up for failure in the region. How can one expect to be accepted by people whom the look down upon?
The "whole gun prevalence" makes me feel considerably safer. An armed society is a polite society. My home is much less likely to be broken into if they think I am armed. My dogs are safer when I can deal with coyotes myself.
Try (sincerely) complimenting the neighbor's 30-06 sitting on the passenger seat and show an interest in their passion for hunting. I bet you will be greeted with a smile and a 1/2 hour friendly discussion. Turn your nose up at their way of life and you should expect a cold reception.
The only people I have met up there that I had an issue with is "city folk" transplants who think they are morally and intellectually superior and want to save everyone else. If they had their way, all the farmers would be cast out so they could "gentrify" the area and populate it with hipsters in skinny jeans. That, of course, would turn it into yet another urban-type development and the hipsters would then look for another area to fix.
That was a GREAT response to "bg7"!
Such condescension and arrogance on their part. There's nothing worse than when a foreigner whether they be from another country or from another region, try's to dictate how others should live.
Too bad for those of you who live upstate that have to put up with NYC and it's metro area who control New York State's legislature. It was Governor Cuomo who once boasted after the passage of New York's "Safe Act" that: "Those who do not think like him are not welcome in New York".
I'm just so glad I'm out of there. There's nothing like the taste of freedom!
..Joe461 is the kind of downstater we welcome around us(I think we messaged a few years back?). From my time traveling for my job, my time in the military, and people I have met/grown up with here in Tioga County..there is no true stereotype anymore of a rural/urban person. I have found that people like Joe 461 are a plus for the area. I do realize the Broome/Tioga/Chemung/Chenango/Cortland county areas fall beyond the Catskills..and just outside the Finger Lakes region. We haven't gotten the numbers of L.I./NYC/NJ'ers' that those 2 areas have seen. The transplants/ weekenders that have acquired property here are for the most part people who want to quietly blend in w/o issues. Do the downstaters ever p##s me off w/some of their ways..sure..and some have left me shaking my head in disbelief. I still get a chuckle out of the NJ'er who came out to the middle of my neighbors field where we were doin' a fix on his tractor. After exiting his shiny new SUV in the middle of this large field to talk to my neighbor...............he set the door lock on his suv...lol..
I used to go see my grandmother up in Sullivan County back in late 70s.....went to drive there about 20 years ago and her old place was all Hasidic. Theres your answer. Everywhere they go they ruin and destroy. See Orange County, NY as prime example
Thank you all for giving me your input. It is really appreciated.
Most of the issues mentioned here are really not an issue for me.
Cable, internet I hardly need. I am trying to get away from it all. Enjoy nature, solitude, reading, music and so on.
Guns? The more the better. I always felt if more people had guns, people would be a lot more polite, the scum would be filtered out a lot faster. A man should be able to defend his land and property.
AS for restaurants. We love cooking.
SO far sounds like an ideal place to get away from it all.
Cook, read, play guitar, ski, quad, hike. But most of all, and this is my favorite, enjoy drives with favorite cars.
I used to go see my grandmother up in Sullivan County back in late 70s.....went to drive there about 20 years ago and her old place was all Hasidic. Theres your answer. Everywhere they go they ruin and destroy. See Orange County, NY as prime example
Again, I couldn't agree more. Thankfully, others have a different opinion. That keeps that crowd there and the lack of a crowd over here.
Taxes are high throughout the state. Property taxes, school taxes, gasoline tax, tobacco tax, sales tax, income tax, death tax... all among the highest in the country.
Skelos (top NY republican) was convicted. Silver (top NY democrat) was convicted. Cuomo would have also been convicted had he not disbanded the Moreland Commission. The "three men in a room" politics of NY state. Albany is a true cesspool. That's just one part of it, but it pretty much summarizes the situation.
Deposit is in Delaware County. I'm on the other side of the county. IMO, this is one of the most beautiful places in NY.
If skiing is your thing (Hunter/Windham/Bellayre) you may want to look at the the other side of the county - towards Stamford or Grand Gorge. It is a little more difficult to get to from downstate (up to 1 hour off I-87) but it is postcard-pretty, quiet and very affordable. That area puts you about 30 minutes from the three ski areas. Since it is on the "other side" of those areas, (as opposed to the NYC side) you avoid all the congestion.
Lake property is harder to come by over there, and you will always pay a premium. I went total hermit mode. I simply built a pond on my property. Now I can swim, canoe or fish on a truly private "lake." Sure, it's too small for motorcraft, but that's not my thing. I prefer ATVs and horses.
I don't know much about the Adirondack area. It was too far for me to consider. From what I have seen, however, it is generally much less expensive than the Catskills. Basically, one you get north of I-88, land prices start to drop significantly. I saw some great deals up in the Cooperstown area. The further north or west I looked, the more prices dropped.
Lake George is a different beast. That area has always attracted money. Look at the rates for "The Sagamore" hotel/resort! I haven't been to Lake George in years, but last time I was there the bulk of the tourist areas could have used some updating. Having an anchor such as the Sagamore, along with the historical significance and general location has kept Lake George a viable destination. (It's also a beautiful lake). At least, that's my guess.
Hello figured I'd chime in I am right there with both of you. Myself originally from Queens then Nassau county then moved up to Livingston County, NY now in Dallas TX ugh can't wait to get back to upstate. I love upstate NY it is peaceful and beautiful the extra money to pay to me is worth it as well. I think they just need 1 good corporation to go there possibly a tech based one to attract a good crowd that will put money in to have some conveniences not saying to make it NYC but just enough to get your basics and have some family things to do. With all the Colleges in close proximity it would be great for families kids get their freedom away at college but not too far to visit. I believe it can turn those depressed areas around and make it better. But you just got to get a big corporate fish to agree
I have been to Lake George we used to go on family picnics there every year all 75 of us gather from all corners of the globe for a week at the Depe Dean resort and had a blast right before bike week would start. Those were the days...
When I moved up to Livingston County we rented a place on 9 acres with like a 300 foot driveway had a herd of deer hanging out in our front and back yard the neighbors race horse was always a pleasure to visit and to pass going up the driveway. We would of tried to buy the place but the owner gave most of the acreage to his sister that lived around the corner and wanted too much for the house with no acreage. So we moved on. So with all the moving we have done trying to find that beauty in the south due to my dear so is from the south and I gave it a chance and he has faced the music and agrees wholeheartedly that the north east is the place to be. So many southerners if they really new would be here in a heartbeat but lucky for us they still have that NY stigma and dislike us.
We are narrowing down places ourselves. Originally we were going to go to the Cooperstown area due to needing a descent High School. Our requirements are still the same at least 10 acres or more. We want to build ultimately but if get a great deal ok but has to have a long driveway, love those! Wild life love the visiting deer and yes you have to make some changes or they will pick the fruits off your tree just as they are getting ripe but that's ok by me.
My thought have changed due to all are getting older my Mom is still on Long Island would love to see her more so had considered the Catskills or somewhere close enough to work in NYC and commute. Then we thought, awe screw it let's just drag her butt up to Adirondacks near Lake Placid and Pittsburgh. There you can have the deer and Moose and I think the bears. Still trying to convince her. Either way in my mind no matter where you go you can't go wrong upstate. Everyone has this issue of it being more expensive in NYS but I can attest to moving around mostly in the south NC and TX that when your paying less on all those things everyone complains about NY having when you go where it's less you lose alot in quality of life and the basic things that I was used to having in NY. Hospitals, unless going to a major area to get a great hospital no matter where you go if it's not a major metro area you will not get quality care in the south. Goes for most all else too.
Oh I did go through Sharon Springs, NY when I was young with the family heading up to Schroon Lake, NY for vaca and stopped there to take pictures of the place that had my name and it was a heavy Hasidic area and they didn't keep the town well buildings leaning to the side alot of run down homes etc... But like anywhere you go it will be spotted good and bad. And looking currently online in that area it doesn't look like it's changed much. I think the Amish areas are the same as well from what I have heard. But not sure on the validity of that.
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"Let this year be over..."
(set 18 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,080,738 times
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Originally Posted by smcm1232
Hospitals, unless going to a major area to get a great hospital no matter where you go if it's not a major metro area you will not get quality care in the south.
Just to address this one line, I work with someone now who would describe the Health Care in upstate NY that his mom is receiving as garbage and life threatening at times. For his moms area if you need "real" medical care you go to Albany. My own experiences in an "affluent" NY suburb of NYC left me to describe the emergency room and subsequent care as 2nd rate, almost third world. The problem is the area mindset that "if you need real medical care you go to NYC". I live in the south and have excellent medical care perhaps health care in rural areas may be a challenge no matter what state you live in.
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Catskills
