Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I didn't see where this was posted yet. I don't have a problem with using wind as an alternative energy source, but I do have a problem with the way big corporations are manipulating small town farmers in upstate NY into signing their land away on these wind farm contracts. Apparently this has finally gotten the attention of the attorney general's office. It's about time.
ATTORNEY GENERAL CUOMO LAUNCHES INVESTIGATION INTO WIND POWER COMPANIES’ CONDUCT ACROSS UPSTATE NEW YORK (broken link)
I think this is interesting in light of the fact that I was just sent an article by a friend regarding the proposed wind farm in Enfield. A couple of things in that article jumped out at me.
1. The comment by John Rancich that "he'd be happy to see the hills that surround Ithaca lined with wind mills". I'll bet.
2. "The hope for the wind farm is to use the power regionally." Yet there's no proposal or plan in place for this.
3. I guess Rancich's dedication to green living doesn't extend to what he's driving, as he's pictured in the IJ article standing in front of his SUV.
I"m glad Cuomo is looking into this in NY. I recently was considering buying some property in IL until I learned the area was going to be blanketed with 500 (not a typo) wind turbines. To help persuade the residents that this was a good thing, the company proposing to build the turbines agreed to rebuild a historical building in the town gratis in return for the community's approval of their turbine plan. Sounds like graft and bribery to me, but no one in IL so much as batted an eye, let alone started an investigation.
Where is JustSayNo and BovinaCowHatesWindTurbines??? They will both be interested in this thread, as they have shared so much good info with all of us on this issue. What most people don't understand is that besides destroying the landscape visually and environmentally (putting up dozens or hundreds of 425 ft. steel structures in rural areas is not without its negative ecological impacts) they are a "forever" decision. They cannot be taken away or dismantled easily, there are usually no iron-clad guarantees by those who sell them to maintain them over the course of their lifetime, and if the company goes under or wind power proves to be a red herring not worth the trouble, then these towns/counties are stuck with these decaying, corroding behemoths for generations.
I wish that people would at least negotiate that some of that power remain in the area to help reduce the cost of energy locally. All I see are people who are looking out for just themselves and looking only at the short term. How very stupid. These big companies are laughing all the way to the bank.
Now were making money for big companies in Spain - great:
"And in June, Iberdrola S.A., which is based in Spain and is one of the world’s largest energy producers, announced its proposal to invest $2 billion to build hundreds more towers here."
There are so many good ways to do this There are miles of open land where the wind really does blow non-stop, where no one lives, and these wind farms an be built. So why aren't they? The reason is right there in the article: those areas aren't near the power grid. It just goes to show you that the companies that are doing this are looking for the cheapest way around this, by carpetbagging, instead of working to have the proper infrastructure built to support these industrial wind farms where they should be built.
People have equally strong feelings about what T. Boone Pickens is proposing, and it's because he's talking about spending the money to create the infrastructure needed for a midwest power grid. He's saying pay the money to do the job right, which always gives the most benefit in the long term.
I also can't help but wonder what this influx of power is going to do to an already shaky and aging northeast power grid. It's already unstable. Maybe it will do nothing, but if we do overload it, who do you think is going to pay for that infrastructure to be fixed? You and me, that's who.
And while I'm taking my turn up on the soapbox, why not make it cheaper for individual homeowners to get their own personal wind turbines? These aren't the 400+ft kind, they're the small ones made for personal use. If people could have these installed, they may be less inclined to bend over for the big turbine companies. Oh, wait, the power companies wouldn't like that, would they?
No, big business will probably win again, and the little people like us will wind up paying in the long term.
www.windaction.org | In rural New York, windmills can bring whiff of corruption
Another good article that shares some insights into the tactics.."And in Brandon, N.Y., nearby, the town supervisor told Mr. Champagne that after a meeting during which he proposed a moratorium on wind towers, he had been invited to pick up a gift from the back seat of a wind company representative's car."
These are the things that many of us have been sharing with the public in an effort to foster more understanding, to push more research between the lines, to alert folks to the OTHER side of this issue. Not the the clean, green, for the good of our children side. So many of the issues that I, Cow, Goldie, etc. have brought up over and over have been slammed down by the "believers" as we are simply NIMBYs or jealous that we don't have a land leases. Well, these issues are now finally being reported, these issues are brought up by many people, in different areas, dealing with different wind companies.
Thank god, something is finally being done to scratch beneath the green surface and get into the mud of the issue! Kepp reading folks, the info IS out there.
While I'm not in NY. I'd like to add a few comments from my own expereince in the power generation industry...... 1) As I have written elsewhere on CD, I am not 100% opposed to wind generation. If it is installed with the knowledge that it is at best an intermittent resource and can not be relied upon to serve 100% of the load 100% of the time and enough baseload resources are installed to maint system intergrity (as is the example with France's Nukers) 2) If large amounts of wind generation (we estimate @20% of total gen resources) are installed there WILL BE a negative impact on system power quality. When any large resource drops off the system other units have to "swing" to pick up the load that is still on the grid. When we rely on large baseload machines (coal,nuke,hydro etc) this does not happen very often but when it does, most of the time the other units on the system have enough ramp up curve to pick up the slack and maintain 60hz...... When we rely on wind to produce the majority of the energy we need, we are subject to wide fluctations of the fuel source(wind) this will and has resulted in wide fluctations of power quaility. Too many "swings" on the system and the relay protections built into our ageing grid will automatically "Trip" leading to widespread blackouts. (This happened @5 years ago out East. Although Wind Generation was not the culprit in that example. The wind blew a tree down) 3) Here in Minnesota there are many many wind units being installed. Large coorperations (many foriegn owned) are buying wind "rights" from land owners. In many cases these coorperations are investor owned groups who are trying to lock in the sites long before they plan to install generation, often before they have permission to tie onto the grid ( if the grid is even close enough) The plan is to own the "resource rights", let someone else develop/upgrade the grid. (most likley the ratepayer) then sell the rights at a huge profit. The landowner thinks he did great getting a few thousand bucks an acre for his wind route when in fact the original buyer is getting 10's of thousands...... 4) Mr. Pickens is correct about rebuiding and expanding the grid. Without a up to dat transmission system no amount of new generators will help. Part of the problem is the NIMBY atitude towards power lines and power plants.
Hey, I live in an area of California that experienced such exponential growth on the past 10 years that even the homes that were built right under these huge transformers and power lines were being sold way above their value. It all depends on what state you're in, how desirable of an area it is, and how tight the real estate market is. When I first moved to my city, the power lines,etc. were thought to be a blight with the adjacent land being basically impossible to develop. How wrong I was! So don't be so sure people won't agree to coexist with intrusive, unsightly power sources/structures.
As long as everyone continues to make oil out to be dirty and bad this is basically what you are going to get. Solar doesn't work here either thanks to the lack of sunshine through the whole winter months. So it is what it is folks, whether you like the windmills or not. Some farmers love them because they are able to stay on their land, others complain about the noise and health problems.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
