Question About 18 Year Old Boys and Female Relatives for Men or Mothers of Men (wife, messages)
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WHERE did I call you a name of any kind? Please don't put words in my mouth.
You certainly seem to frequently take offense when none was spoken or intended
I'm still just struggling to make sense out of what the real problem is here - so much of what you've said doesn't make sense to me.
You quoted someone who said they doubted my "veracity," and you said you agreed with that. Do you know what veracity means? It is not a compliment. The person was saying they doubted my truthfulness and you said you agreed with that. That, in essence, is calling someone a liar.
Just because you think you are mother of the year and feel free to judge other mothers and other people's lives, does not mean that my experiences aren't valid . . .because you cannot understand me simply means you can't understand me - it does not mean that I have no valid points or that I am a liar.
It is really not that difficult to understand. I love this person I wrote about and he is rejecting me - for good or bad - and it hurts . . .it's really simple.
When I said I don't know it all just because I raised kids, I am being honest . . . so many parents are in denial of their parenting skills . . .I am not. I made many mistakes and would have done a lot differently. When I said I know "nothing," what I mean is complicated and you would have to have a certain kind of thinking to appreciate what I mean . . .it is kind of a spiritual belief . . .people often THINK they know more than they do . . .
Go back and look at my post, I was saying I agree with the other poster when they said,
"Well, it seems obvious that you "should" have learned this by raising your own children."
It just doesn't make sense that a grown woman who has already raised kids would be so upset and clueless about an 18 year old's reaction of pulling away when they feel they are being smothered.
Well, it seems obvious that you "should" have learned this by raising your own children, as you indicated you have done earlier in this thread.
The fact that you are still puzzling over this universal separation issue--as someone who has parented before--raises a lot of doubts about the veracity of what you have shared on this board.
LovesMountains: This is the full statement that you agreed with.
The fact that YOU cannot understand is irrelevant.
LovesMountains: This is the full statement that you agreed with.
The fact that YOU cannot understand is irrelevant.
I bolded the part I agreed with in the other posters statement, normally that is enough for posters to see what is being referred to.
In hindsight I guess I should have deleted the bottom portion where they questioned the veracity of what you've said so there could have been no misunderstanding. I apologize that you got the wrong impression of what I was showing agreement with.
I bolded the part I agreed with in the other posters statement, normally that is enough for posters to see what is being referred to.
In hindsight I guess I should have deleted the bottom portion where they questioned the veracity of what you've said so there could have been no misunderstanding. I apologize that you got the wrong impression of what I was showing agreement with.
So, let me put it more bluntly in the form of a question. OP, what was your experience and reaction when your OWN children went through the separation process at age 18 or so? How is this situation different?
That is what people here are not understanding. Can you help us get a clearer picture? Because it seems like you are purposely leaving out great chunks of important information about your parenting history that is relevant to the situation that we are attempting to analyze and comment upon. That's not being very honest on your part, is it?
1) I realize and respect that he is individuating . . . AND I have conflicting ideas about this based on cultural messages . . .for instance, in traditional Asian culture, filial duties are actual law, I believe . . .the family is revered and old people are not cast off . . .same in tribal cultures . . .elders hold the wisdom of their tribe and have great rank. In American culture, old people are useless, and old women are especially useless . . .It's very sexist and ageist . . .
I wanted to get back to this point. In American culture "old" people are not useless unless they make themselves be that. "Old" people can be very important to an older child/young adult.
You cared about the little boy, the small child because that's easy to do. Small children are cute and entertain us in a way an adolescent does not. He has now grown and he now bores you. You only cared about his day when you could ask him how school was and he wanted to tell you, but you don't care about his interests any more.
He's an 18 year old American boy - he's not forced by law to behave in a certain way, he doesn't have to pretend anything because his culture demands it, but he still wants you to watch him lift or watch the videos he likes, it's you who doesn't want to accept him for what he is now at this point in time. You're the one who finds his interests boring, apparently all of them.
My grandfather was always cool but not cool because he tried to be a kid, he was cool because he always liked us and was interested in our lives. Same with certain aunts and uncles. For example my grandfather told all his grandchildren where he had a key hidden for his house and that if for any reason we ever needed a place to stay, his house was ours and no questions would be asked why. At least one cousin did take him up on it, she ran away from home but only to his home where she was safe, he never discussed the details and she eventually went back to her parents.
American culture with all it's faults can be more genuine. Children catch on who really cares about them for what they are.
You are disappointed because he's not fitting in with some cultural idea you have of how things should be but that's not practical considering where the boy is living. You don't really find him interesting at this point, but if you lose touch with him now, you may not get it back when he changes some more and becomes an adult you can relate with.
A lot of people don't really like teenagers, especially teenage boys. Still it can be very important for kids to have someone older in their lives. Whether it's you or someone else or no one - it's kind of up to you.
So, let me put it more bluntly in the form of a question. OP, what was your experience and reaction when your OWN children went through the separation process at age 18 or so? How is this situation different?
That is what people here are not understanding. Can you help us get a clearer picture? Because it seems like you are purposely leaving out great chunks of important information about your parenting history that is relevant to the situation that we are attempting to analyze and comment upon. That's not being very honest on your part, is it?
Your assertion of dishonesty is insulting and untrue and I really do not wish to engage with someone who would make that kind of assertion.
Each one of my children is/was different, and each situation with them was different and I don't care to go into that. There were few parallels with this situation.
I wanted to get back to this point. In American culture "old" people are not useless unless they make themselves be that. "Old" people can be very important to an older child/young adult.
You cared about the little boy, the small child because that's easy to do. Small children are cute and entertain us in a way an adolescent does not. He has now grown and he now bores you. You only cared about his day when you could ask him how school was and he wanted to tell you, but you don't care about his interests any more.
He's an 18 year old American boy - he's not forced by law to behave in a certain way, he doesn't have to pretend anything because his culture demands it, but he still wants you to watch him lift or watch the videos he likes, it's you who doesn't want to accept him for what he is now at this point in time. You're the one who finds his interests boring, apparently all of them.
My grandfather was always cool but not cool because he tried to be a kid, he was cool because he always liked us and was interested in our lives. Same with certain aunts and uncles. For example my grandfather told all his grandchildren where he had a key hidden for his house and that if for any reason we ever needed a place to stay, his house was ours and no questions would be asked why. At least one cousin did take him up on it, she ran away from home but only to his home where she was safe, he never discussed the details and she eventually went back to her parents.
American culture with all it's faults can be more genuine. Children catch on who really cares about them for what they are.
You are disappointed because he's not fitting in with some cultural idea you have of how things should be but that's not practical considering where the boy is living. You don't really find him interesting at this point, but if you lose touch with him now, you may not get it back when he changes some more and becomes an adult you can relate with.
A lot of people don't really like teenagers, especially teenage boys. Still it can be very important for kids to have someone older in their lives. Whether it's you or someone else or no one - it's kind of up to you.
First of all, it is untrue that old people are valued in American culture . . . maybe some are treated better than others due to their charming personalities but as a group of people, they are not valued. It's a youth-obsessed culture in America . . . we all know that. There is no reverence for experience of wisdom . . .it's all about what you look like on the outside - all shiny and sparkly stuff - very shallow.
Secondly, you took a statement I made about not watching him lift one time and how I don't find lifting fascinating, and you extended that to me not caring about his interests. Nothing could be further from the truth. He is a very interesting person - that's why I LOVE to talk to him . . .he is very intelligent and has all kinds of interesting ideas, friends, and experiences . . .but he does not want to share any of that with me, which I now have a better appreciation for, thanks to this thread.
He frequently wants me to listen to some rap video on YouTube and I do suffer through it. He tells me to ignore the swearing and listen to the messages, which I try to do. It makes me very uncomfortable, but I do try to at least pretend that I am listening and then we discuss the messages, sometimes.
We have different values - I am always trying to get him to read uplifting books, for instance, and I buy him classics, etc. - He is tending to gravitate towards popular culture stuff, and I know that is natural, but I hope the other influences will appeal at some point.
Last edited by imcurious; 11-20-2011 at 11:25 AM..
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