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If you have constructive advice, give it. If not, kindly exit my thread. I don't need criticism right now.
You know what? You sound like your mother.
People are offering advice; many from a viewpoint of "been there," but you see it as nothing but criticism and reject it. Wow. You are in a really bad place.
So, let's sum up your posts in this thread. You seem to have a good bead on your mother
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She only wanted to deal with me in a detached way, and only wanted to hear that I was perfect and that everything was going great in my life. If I had a problem, I could not approach her with it because she refused to listen and would deny the existence of the problem
Sometimes I get the feeling that it PAINS her to acknowledge me. Like it's too difficult for her to step out of her self-centered existence to take a genuine interest in her daughter.
..mother simply does not see past the end of her own nose. And it's only getting worse. She's very dominant and she doesn't take well to anyone challenging her.
Yes, she will probably deny or distort the facts, or she will act in that robotic, detached, business-like way which she loves because she doesn't have to invest any of her own emotions into the conversation. In other words, she'll make it so she doesn't have to be vulnerable or wrong at all.
And this is how you want to deal with it
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It's just becoming more glaringly obvious as I get older and healthier. So things that didn't used to get to me are really getting to me now.
I am going to have to confront her on this. I know that I shouldn't expect anything to come out of it, but if I don't stand up for myself I will feel like an idiot. I doubt she's even capable of owning her behavior, but I have to fight back.
You say you are "older and healthier" but her behavior is getting to you more, now. That's NOT "healthy." Healthy is to have accepted that this is a person who is not going to change and reach a place in your own psyche where it does not affect you.
"Fight back?" Against what? To fight means to defend one's self; to exact retribution; to force another person to bend to your will. In those first quoted paragraphs, you demonstrate that you know perfectly well how she will respond.
Your mother has desperately hurt you. You are (and have always been, it seems) in an enormous amount of pain. What you want to do by "fighting" is to hurt her back. And believe me (as someone who has been through this with not just one generation - my own mother - but two. I lived with or was in close association with my mother's mother for over 10 years) it is not going to work. The narcissist is so very skilled at deflecting blows, so very-very skilled at taking the accusations you make and turn them around so that they are the victim, not you. And if they don't have the words, they have their own rage - which can be hideous.
You are likely to come out of this "fight" in worse shape than you went in. There is very little chance of a resolution. In fact, there's a good chance you'll come out of this feeling guilty about attacking her. She'll see to it. Narcissists are excellent at turning the tables.
You need to understand where the narcissism comes from. There is typically a pattern or influence from a parent, which you noted
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I know that my mother's mother was very emotionally unavailable, cold, rigid, logical and practical.
Your mother is a damaged person, who caused you to be damaged. If you have or plan to have kids, now is the time to break the cycle. My siblings did with themselves; they don't allow their kids or grandkids to be around our mother - which she uses to paint herself as a victim to her friends. We don't care. The damage stops with us.
As much as you need to understand your mother's narcissism and how she is not going to change, you need to get the anger out. Striking out at her is not the answer. I would seriously suggest therapy. Coming to these boards is a good way of knowing that you aren't alone (and you aren't, despite your rejection of our "criticism") but finding a way to be resolved of your anger and pain - that's going to take a professional. Some of us worked through it ourselves, but it can takes decades to do that (BTDT). I have reached a state of detachment, having developed stock phrases and coping skills that made it easier to associate with my mother, but it was very bad for a long time.
You are in a club that none of us would prefer even existed. Those of us who are narcissist survivors want you to find a strong, healthy way to come out on the other side of the pain and anger, but it's going to take more than just coming here. We can point, you have to take the steps.
My heart goes out to you because your mother sounds the narcissistic mother who raised me. People raised by mothers like ours can end up with terrible self esteem issues and feel as though their role in life is just to be Mom's doormat. I never got any validation from my mom when I was growing up. My problems were ignored and swept under the carpet, but boy, were my Mom's issues ever important. If she broke a nail it was a major catastrophe, but if I got my ankle caught in the spokes of my bike and ended up with a fracture, I was supposed to put some linament on it and shut up. I quickly learned that my role in life was to be my mother's caretaker - a role I took on around age 4 - not the other way around.
I was in therapy for years trying to undo the damage of my childhood. I remember one therapist telling me very strongly that I would be better off "divorcing" my mom. As an adult, I still couldn't please her, I couldn't turn to her for sympathy or understanding and my every inter-action with her left me feeling diminished. I ended up putting two mountain ranges and 400 miles between me and my Mom. If I could have moved to Mars to get away from her, I would have.
Your mother is not going to change anymore than mine did. It's very hard to accept, but some people - mothers included - are simply incapable of caring about anyone but themselves. Give up this terribly sad attempt to get your mother to respond to you as she never did when you were a child and has never done since you've become an adult. "Divorce" her and keep contact at an absolute minimum. You'll be far happier in the long run.
All the best -
Rambler
You just described my mother, I am no contact with her yet again, the last time it was for 9 years, this time it has been 3years. I started talking to her because she was getting old, bad move, nothing had changed.
OP you might want to read about narcissistic mother's, might help you to understand what is really going on.
With my mother, it really got down to her or me...I chose me.
Stava, I'm so sorry that your mother behaves the way she does. When I read your post, I thought that I could have written it. I have the same kind of mother...totally narcissistic. In my case, my mother has mental issues that are under control, but she is still totall self-centered. She is insecure, talks about herself constantly, and tries to make herself sound so wonderful. To someone outside the family, they think she is just awesome and tell me how lucky I am to have a loving mother like her. Inside the family, we know the real her.
She emotionally abused me as a child...telling me how I would fail at anything I wanted to try in junior high or high school. She constantly told me how pretty and popular she was in high school. She let me know that I shouldn't bother going out for cheerleading or anything else, as I was too mousey and skinny. I went on to be very successful in my career (a perfectionist, of course, because I kept trying to prove I was not the loser she thought I was).
Ironic as it seems, I am now her caregiver. She is 89. She is still talking about herself constantly, and I have to listen to this bull all day long. She is also a total control freak and a pathological liar. Her memory is starting to go a little, and eventually I will place her in a nursing home. However, we have longevity in our family.
Just know that you are not alone. There are books written on the subject...Toxic Parents is one of them that I would recommend. If you haven't tried therapy, I would recommend it. I did a lot of therapy trying to overcome the damage she did. Best of luck to you with your mother. ((Hugs))
And believe me (as someone who has been through this with not just one generation - my own mother - but two. I lived with or was in close association with my mother's mother for over 10 years) it is not going to work. The narcissist is so very skilled at deflecting blows, so very-very skilled at taking the accusations you make and turn them around so that they are the victim, not you. And if they don't have the words, they have their own rage - which can be hideous.
You are likely to come out of this "fight" in worse shape than you went in. There is very little chance of a resolution. In fact, there's a good chance you'll come out of this feeling guilty about attacking her. She'll see to it. Narcissists are excellent at turning the tables.
Your mother is a damaged person, who caused you to be damaged. If you have or plan to have kids, now is the time to break the cycle. My siblings did with themselves; they don't allow their kids or grandkids to be around our mother - which she uses to paint herself as a victim to her friends. We don't care. The damage stops with us.
You are in a club that none of us would prefer even existed. Those of us who are narcissist survivors want you to find a strong, healthy way to come out on the other side of the pain and anger, but it's going to take more than just coming here. We can point, you have to take the steps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollydo
You just described my mother, I am no contact with her yet again, the last time it was for 9 years, this time it has been 3years. I started talking to her because she was getting old, bad move, nothing had changed.
OP you might want to read about narcissistic mother's, might help you to understand what is really going on.
With my mother, it really got down to her or me...I chose me.
Sending support your way.
Silverwing you said it all with "You are in a club that none of us would prefer even existed."rep, rep
Btdt, me too (except my MIL showed me what a real mother is). The most important thing I learned and
would stress to the OP is you will never please her and she will continue to manipulate, criticize, turn
family members against you, use you as a scapegoat and it will always be your fault. I was foolish
enough to take her venom for 55 years but I did make a decision that she would not and never
try that s*** or play mind games combined with guilt on my children. She never really gave a rat's
arse about them anyway unless it was to criticize or have fun at their expense (cruel fun).
I haven't seen her in 3 years (that is another horrible story). I like Dollydo, chose myself. Felt
guilty at first because I always put others before myself but now I have some peace.
I just don't know how I'm going to maintain a relationship with her at this point. Clearly it's not actually a "relationship" and I'm done with playing games, pretending things are something other than what they are. My family has a "look the other way" dynamic so that nothing is ever really confronted or dragged out into the light. This whole thing is just really overwhelming me right now.
You don't have to!
You are an independent adult who succeeded in spite of her, bravo.
Now you can learn what you don't want to be, and rise above her to be a better person.
All Women who give birth are not automatically mothers, she doesn't have to be in your life anymore.
And your stress about her says she still has parental power over you, it's a choice now.
I like the post that said she got the short end of the stick when it came to mothers. I guess that's all it ends up being, the luck or no luck of the draw. It happens with your children also. You can do everything right, and have a selfish kid.
I always wanted a daughter and I'm a good mom, so if anyone needs one, I'm here. Good luck to all that has to deal with less than loving selfless family members.
Thanks all. I'm going to confront her next week as today is not the best day to do this. I feel good about my decision.
By all means, get it off your chest. Please be aware it may not affect her one little bit. Those who have spent a lifetime denying any mistakes or wrong-doing won't accept blame. So if you're going there to get her to admit fault, be prepared for more disappointment.
By all means, get it off your chest. Please be aware it may not affect her one little bit. Those who have spent a lifetime denying any mistakes or wrong-doing won't accept blame. So if you're going there to get her to admit fault, be prepared for more disappointment.
The sun is shining today. I hope you enjoy it.
It IS a gorgeous day today .
I am not confronting her for the purpose of getting an apology from her. My siblings tried that years ago and she went into full-blown victim mode, complete with instant tears, saying that she "did everything she could" and that she "would have done anything for us". That's in HER mind.
I'm confronting her because I need to make MY voice known. Even if she plays the victim, or denies responsibility, or cuts the conversation short, at least I will know that I stood up for ME. No one else is going to do that for me, she sure as hell won't do it, so that's on my shoulders to do. And of course I am fully prepared for being dismissed, because by saying "I matter" I will be shifting the power away from her, and she doesn't like that. But at least I'll have stood for something.
And dammmn, aren't they good at that Not only that, some narcissists have this fatal charm that attracts people to them.
I am frankly boggled at the number of friends my mother has. Oodles, just oodles of friends. When I visit, having hoisted my mental and emotional armor before arriving at her door, she'll trot out neighbors and friends who have come especially to meet me. I'll be showered with praise "oh, Mamma Silverwing has told us so much about you, Silverwing! She's been telling us how much she looked forward to your visit!" Outwardly, I'd be polite and gracious in response, inside I'm thinking "she is so full of sh*t." I knew that as soon as the door closed, my mother would be full of invective insults toward those people.
After the visit, I'd stagger back to my sibling's house, shaking my head. How a person can be so skilled at fooling people, I don't know. I sure can't pull off such a charade. My sibs and I have often laughed (yes, one can reach a point where the behavior becomes hilarious) that we'd like to record our mother's behind-closed-doors tirades and play it back for her "friends" but why rock the boat? She charms them, enjoys the visits, it fills her time and keeps us from her demands that we provide her with a social outlet (not that we would, but it cuts down on her howling).
She is 77 or 78, now, and in poor health. Family pride keeps us looking after her physical welfare, we're all detached enough to be able to stand her for short periods of time. We've kept the younger generations away from her except for special visits at Christmas and her birthday. That they will never really know their grandmother/g-grandmother is a good thing for my siblings and I in that they'll never experience her abuse, but they will also never understand what a truly historic person she is in the family line. There are some who stand out in a titanic way for good or evil, but you have to actually know them to understand their impact.
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Mother's acknowledgement
rep, rep
Good luck to all that has to deal with less than loving selfless family members.
Not only that, some narcissists have this fatal charm that attracts people to them.
