Toxic people advice (jealous, spouse, husband, presents)
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I've read just about every "toxic people/family members/co-workers" thread here, but there's one question that is yet to be fully addressed: the kids. What about the kids?
What if you've semi-severed ties (low contact; emotional distance) with a toxic family member but you still want to be there for their young kids?
I don't want to go into too much detail but I originally went low contact after YEARS of being enmeshed and entangled with toxic family. While I never endured physical abuse, the covert, subtle, sneaky abuse was rampant, PERSISTENT and painful. A lot of put-downs, backhanded compliments, mindless grudges, silent treatment, judging, condescending remarks and/or questions, envy, jealousy, competition, gossip, excessive drinking, triangulation with other family members, manipulation, putting on airs...I could go on. But I think you get the idea. In short, I reached a point where I started getting physically sick whenever I had to spend any amount of time with them (and in an enmeshed, controlling family, that's A LOT of time).. I'm not a naturally anxious person (quite the opposite) but I started feeling extremely anxious and irritable every time I knew I had to attend yet another gathering or event (sometimes several days to a week before the event). So after a year of anxious soul searching and great support, I decided to remove myself from the circle- emotionally and physically. I hit my breaking point. I could no longer play the fake "we are so close but we really hate each other" games and pretend to be happy around people who never genuinly cared about me. Since then, life has been GREAT, peaceful, and wonderful. But every once in a while, I feel guilty. So my main question is this: if you've been in my situation before, how did you handle your relationship with the kids of toxic family? Did you end up severing ties with them as well? While it would be enormously sad to not be there for them the way I used to, I don't want to spend any more time with the group. Unfortunately, the kids are not old enough to understand unhealthy dynamics. I have NO desire to go back to the way things used to be, but I keep struggling with the guilt of not "being there" for them (Even if it's only for special celebratory events. However, those make me anxious too). Advice? Thanks.
I kept my relationship with my niece. Its easy these days with social media. I stuck by her but in the end she was daddy's girl after all. Gifts on birthdays and holidays, a $500 college graduation gift, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah but the tip-toeing around conversations, avoiding any mention of her dad (my brother) took it's toll. She's still there on the other end of social media, I'm still proud of her, but I'm tired of being the aggressive aunt. She's never once initiated any inroad into our relationship. It got tiresome so I quit. She knows I love her.
Well this sounds familiar to me, but I'm the parent and my sister is the aunt that I severed ties with (she is single, no kids). I feel SO MUCH better since I stopped talking to and seeing her. Stress gone. Life is easier.
I have to say I felt really bad about taking her away from my daughter. My oldest son was too little and they baby wasn't born, so they were not effected, but my daughter was 3.5 half, now 5, and she still mentions her now and then if something reminds her of her. This will probably hurt your feelings and make you feel better at the same time, but after some time, my daughter got used to the fact that her aunt is not around anymore. She no longer asks to see or talk to her or asks about her. I never told her we can't see her anymore, just made excuses like she's working or out of town and she eventually let it go. She is fine. Not scarred or traumatized by it all. My sister gets them birthday and Christmas presents, but that's it. I don't let them see her, because that will start things over again, but they like getting stuff from her and that she acknowledges those special occasions.
I've read just about every "toxic people/family members/co-workers" thread here, but there's one question that is yet to be fully addressed: the kids. What about the kids?
What if you've semi-severed ties (low contact; emotional distance) with a toxic family member but you still want to be there for their young kids?
I don't want to go into too much detail but I originally went low contact after YEARS of being enmeshed and entangled with toxic family. While I never endured physical abuse, the covert, subtle, sneaky abuse was rampant, PERSISTENT and painful. A lot of put-downs, backhanded compliments, mindless grudges, silent treatment, judging, condescending remarks and/or questions, envy, jealousy, competition, gossip, excessive drinking, triangulation with other family members, manipulation, putting on airs...I could go on. But I think you get the idea. In short, I reached a point where I started getting physically sick whenever I had to spend any amount of time with them (and in an enmeshed, controlling family, that's A LOT of time).. I'm not a naturally anxious person (quite the opposite) but I started feeling extremely anxious and irritable every time I knew I had to attend yet another gathering or event (sometimes several days to a week before the event). So after a year of anxious soul searching and great support, I decided to remove myself from the circle- emotionally and physically. I hit my breaking point. I could no longer play the fake "we are so close but we really hate each other" games and pretend to be happy around people who never genuinly cared about me. Since then, life has been GREAT, peaceful, and wonderful. But every once in a while, I feel guilty. So my main question is this: if you've been in my situation before, how did you handle your relationship with the kids of toxic family? Did you end up severing ties with them as well? While it would be enormously sad to not be there for them the way I used to, I don't want to spend any more time with the group. Unfortunately, the kids are not old enough to understand unhealthy dynamics. I have NO desire to go back to the way things used to be, but I keep struggling with the guilt of not "being there" for them (Even if it's only for special celebratory events. However, those make me anxious too). Advice? Thanks.
My husband's family and situation is very much like yours. He ultimately and regretfully had to curb the younger members because their parents were too willing to use their kids as pawns. He originally felt that the younger members will come to him when they're older. But you know, they're growing up hearing their parent's "indoctrination" about what an awful, atrocious, rotten person my husband is and anyone who leaves the family for some sanity are made out to be evil and whatever other bad adjectives, so my husband is aware of the effects it has. He hopes to see the older ones later down the road, but has no expectations for the much younger ones.
You could use a break from them for a few years & try to reconnect when you know how to deal with them. The kids may or may not grow up to be like their parents. Trying to stay in contact with the kids while ignoring their parents sets a bad example & it unnecessarily pulls them into all the family drama so do them a favor & cut all the ties for a few years. When they are old enough to understand why you stayed away from the family, you can try to contact them through social media or show up during the holidays & get re-acquainted with them. Don't go out of the way to ignore them though. If you run into them just be polite & if they ask why you no longer visit, just say you are working through some stuff with your family but you love & care for them no matter what. Don't be offended if you are ignored by them when they grow up as they hardly know you. At this time you have done what's best for yourself. If the kids grow up to be well adjusted, mature people then they will see through the ways of their family & understand why you took a stand.
Never make any statement to kids' parents or family about your reasons for distance. 'Toxic Family' is excellent book. Approach suggested for dealing with the adults will keep your relationship as intact with the kids as possible. Littler kids are easier to deal with as the cheaper, but interesting gifts are easy to guess and won't break the bank to think of the kids sometimes....
I have one of these situations after finding out some really unsavory stuff about brother-in-law. He treats my sister & kids okay but psychopathic stuff would not even surprise me out of his family as they treated others this way. AFter being lowered down by them myself, I don't feel far from their possible wrath. I cannot even attend the kid events at school or church any longer as I don't want these BIL's family to even get chance to talk to me after some of their past problems with me. The book I mentioned gave some very helpful ways to communicate with the screwed up adults but still deal okay with kids until they hit teens...
I also understand this problem is not about me. There is nothing I EVER need to say about any of it as it will only be used against me. I just get to move into my parent's old age and my care-giving years with my parents with a ditzy sister and worse bil plus his good for nothing family. I would be pleased to just deal with all my parent's needs myself living in another location due to really bad economy & terrible work situations in my current city and really terrible treatment of seniors in my city.
Toxic Family book:
1. This only really works if you NEVER need any of these people financially.
2. You can write out a letter to family to explain your long-term problems with them & hurts. I would NEVER bother delivering it if you don't feel your parents would ever change, most will not. All generations have their dysfunction so everything has always been unfair or overly difficult for someone...This can be just a therapy step for you, explaining to your family by letter how much they have hurt you.
3. Family get-togethers are just an appointment. These need a set start and end time with an excuse to leave. Spouse needs to agree to support it to keep the peace.
4. You will be baited and harassed about anything, even how you voted when you were 22 wearing black pants instead of blue jeans and wore the wrong shade of lipstick. These people are toxicly flawed and they are only talking their crazy problems out on you. You should not answer any of the harassment...Only respond with 'oh', 'really', 'you don't say'. I would not ever discuss my feelings or anything of substance if you are ever insulted for it....You can discuss the same annoying hobby again and again if you wish....If you have any caregiving role for these people, you will need to ask what they need you to do and just set up another appointment. The twice monthly shop, cooking, yard, laundry and house cleaning could just be on your schedule along with all the doctor appointments...or talk to your local senior services department through the county office to find a discounted home health aide. These are covered by block grants sometimes...
5. During the visits with family members, you need to stay busy doing something to avoid any conversation with adults. PLAYING WITH THE KIDS IS NICEST. Or work cooking or clean up duty on the meals...Though the most messed up adults always love to talk about themselves so just AH-HUH though it.
6. Eventually the kids will be rude teenagers who still repeat their parent's complaints and insults like a tape recorder. You can explain the child will be 18 someday and can do anything he/she wants to leave the situation and it is not the kid's fault. Kid can make anything he/she wants for himself with enough effort....Try to gear gifts toward personal development, college or hobbies the parents refuse to pay for... If relationship with kids gets ugly, you only get to remember the kids as young children and just let it go...Fruit doesn't fall far from trees. Kids do not say hurtful things if you handled them neutrally, their parents do. But sometimes the gifts do not make it, no matter how you try so you just have to accept need to cease your attempts for anything if this happens.
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