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I can certainly understand why the OP is concerned about her brother and his future. If he can't figure out how to get a downpayment together during good economic times, what will he do during the inevitable lean times?
But can't help but think of how things have changed. When I was growing up, my mother wanted to get a job and my father threw a three yard fit. He could support the family. It was insulting to think he needed his wife to work. She did go to work, but it was over his strenuous objections.
Now, being able to bring in an income is considered part of parcel of being a wife. Even if you devote your waking hours to creating a home, if you don't bring in an income, you're considered a slacker.
I watch our daughters struggle with working, managing a home, and raising babies and my heart goes out to them.
Because of course the answer isn't to expect that men do more around the house or anything so women don't still have to do it all after coming home from a full day of work at the office...
FWIW, I don't know that it's "considered part and parcel of being a wife," but it might be considered part and parcel of being an adult to be able to support yourself financially, at least if there may be an issue with paying the bills otherwise. If she was working and he wasn't and there were financial difficulties, I'm sure we'd expect him to go out and get a job too. But yes, we could just as easily suggest the husband gets a better-paying job if he wants his wife not to have to work. (OP is so worried about his finances, but presumably if this was also a concern of his, he'd request the wife get a job. He's not exactly a powerless victim here. I assume she didn't just quit her job one day and come home and say "well, I'm not working anymore, you just support me" and he's been protesting since then but she holds firm. Even if that is the case, it's still his problem, and not OP's unless he brings it up first.)
Yes, slow golf clap to all those cubicle dwellers. Fortunately, society functions best with a mix of both.
Being a dreamer doesn't mean you aren't a doer, though, and those who don't work in cubicles manage to pay taxes too.
What this world has enough of is finger-wagging, tongue-clucking, condescending Judgy McJudgersons.
The point of this thread? Live YOUR life the way you want, and let others live theirs.
How you express your opinion (even privately to others) about someone else's life does color the way you end up treating them. More than you may be aware of. It can be insidious and ruin otherwise good relationships. I find myself looking back over the lives of my two sisters and myself and how our opinions of our respected paths affected our relationships. Everyone has their personal platform about what's acceptable, responsible, legitimate, adult. It just doesn't apply equally across the board no matter how much someone wants it to.
If you'll indulge me, some personal lessons learned about this:
One of my sisters has usually been the judge and jury about everyone else. Suspicious, always assuming the worst. To the point of insult. Doesn't matter...she just knows she's right which gives her "permission", even though she has convenient blind spots about her own decisions. Despite having made some serious blunders of her own. I can honestly say her opinions have never been of much benefit to anyone else. Of course much of that is due to her manner, but those memories from life cut deep. Her intentions may have been good or may have been self serving, but everyone else ends up assuming the latter. A very good lesson in what NOT to do.
My other sister can be frivolous, short sighted, indulgent. Even though I get along better with her and can appreciate why she does some of the things she does, I have to bite my tongue a lot. She and her husband make their living in the performing art world, live overseas and always seem to be moving...buying one house in Italy or the UK only to end up hating something about the town, the neighbors, the place, and trying to unload it a year later. Over and over again. Leaving a string of properties they won't use. Much of the time in some sort of upheaval. Financially they seem like a mess, but somehow they manage and seem to get a lot of joy out of their lives despite it.
I've learned that thinking something about another person bleeds through into the way you treat them. What you say and what you think matters. It usually has long term consequences.
Once, when one of my agency jobs lost funding and I was waiting on the results of another interview I made the mistake of accepting the judgmental sister's invitation to visit. I had carefully chosen this position and knew my chances were really good. My sister chose that moment of understandable anxiety to set me straight about my chosen career. Pinned me in the kitchen and proceeded to tear me apart. Claimed I was causing all sorts of worry for my father (from whom I'd never borrowed money BTW) and that I'd be a bag lady by the time I was 40 unless I gave up my foolish dream and got a "real" job. Even after I managed to escape her she left little notes in the bathroom, on my bed reinforcing the sermon. It was horrible.
She was completely wrong about a situation she knew nothing about. I got the job as expected and have since retired from an uninterrupted 35 year career with that same agency. Benefits, retirement, stability, respectability, supposedly what we are supposed to want as adults. Financially I ended up in better shape than the person lecturing me about it all. What remains to this day are her words. We didn't speak for years after that. Even now, 30+ years later we do talk once in a while but I don't share much with her. Too well trained to trust her.
Sorry for the long epistle. Just be careful OP.
Last edited by Parnassia; 11-03-2019 at 03:41 PM..
Of course, men should do their share around the house. But how many actually do? How many actually pitch in 50-50? How many actually care for the kids 50-50?
There's a lot of time and energy involved in creating and managing a home. I've done it for 50 years and I can tell you there's a difference at home when I'm working 40+ hours a week. When our kids were home and I was working, our home was scramble.
When I wasn't working, I could create a refuge from the world for us all. Cook good meals. Make sure there were books around that each one enjoyed reading. Keep track of all the things that make life run smooth.
It's too bad that living on one salary is such a struggle at times.
If the brother and his wife are comfortable, be happy for them.
Yes, slow golf clap to all those cubicle dwellers. Fortunately, society functions best with a mix of both.
Being a dreamer doesn't mean you aren't a doer, though, and those who don't work in cubicles manage to pay taxes too.
What this world has enough of is finger-wagging, tongue-clucking, condescending Judgy McJudgersons.
The point of this thread? Live YOUR life the way you want, and let others live theirs.
Even slower clap for all the 'artists' out there who have no real skill except uh, Aaart dahling!
Half the stuff they produce is crap that a class of four year olds with finger paint can make.
No barrier to entry allows this baloney in quantities that are truly heart stopping.
Try that with engineering and see what your bridges look like!
Yeah but some of these student loan companies are brutal. I remember when I first started repayment, they’d literally start calling me with collections calls 5 times a day the day the payment was due, even though it took days (almost a week) for their system to process payment. People also have numerous difficulties with repayment plans and other tricks that have nothing to do with poor financial management but with the loan companies themselves engaging in shady practices. For example, I made a payment once and they applied it to interest and then started to barrage me with collections calls saying I was late because the principal had not been paid. This is not uncommon.
I work closely to the student loan industry. Many servicers (sometimes they are collection agencies, too) will start calling 1 week before the payment is even due.
The collection agency called you. You passed along the message. So, you're done with that. If the agency calls you again, tell them to stop harassing you.
You're thinking or renting to SIL and brother.. As a landlord, run a credit check on them like you would for any prospective tenant. If it looks like they can't keep up the rent, don't rent to them. Renting is a business..not a charity. If you still choose to rent to them anyway, just make sure you don't really 'need' that rent to live on.
The car.. eh, that's up to you.
Other than those things. Stay out of their financial affairs. Stay out of their marriage and mind you're own business. They're both adults.
You are extremely judgmental of the OP!
Those cubicle dwellers and their taxes make our society possible and pay in part for the social programs for many people, including as we surmise from the OP post- her “artist” SIL.
The 20 yo educational debt is not some “evil” government’s money not needed to pay back, but the taxpayers money.
Imagine if we all follow your ideology and become starving artists, adventurers, writers and pursue our “dreams” - what would the society look like? A scary thought!
Bravo! Big thank you! Kudos! To all hard working cubicle dwellers everywhere
Love you!
^^^ I second this.
Without us cubicle dwellers, no one would keep up the economy and feed the starving artists who don't feel like working for a steady paycheck.
I am pro "let everyone live the way they want" - but if they come knocking on my door (or call) asking for money - that's where my patience ends.
OP did not ask to be involved - she was not nosy - she got dragged into this. I'd be frustrated too, if I go to work every day and work hard while my family sits at home, pursuing their dreams and then I am supposed to chip in when they run out of money.
You're thinking or renting to SIL and brother.. As a landlord, run a credit check on them like you would for any prospective tenant. If it looks like they can't keep up the rent, don't rent to them. Renting is a business..not a charity. If you still choose to rent to them anyway, just make sure you don't really 'need' that rent to live on.
The OP and her husband already rent to them. Too late.
I work closely to the student loan industry. Many servicers (sometimes they are collection agencies, too) will start calling 1 week before the payment is even due.
Yes, and people can be barraged with calls while legitimately trying to recertify repayment plans and being given the runaround by the servicing companies. The OP’s SIL may have a valid repayment plan, no credit issues, and she’s making all these assumptions about the SIL and her brother not being able to pay anything. That might not be the case at all. At this point, only about 1-2% of people who signed up for the PSLF, for example, who thought they were eligible for loan forgiveness, have actually gotten their loans forgiven. The servicers have come up with ways to deny everyone else.
Even slower clap for all the 'artists' out there who have no real skill except uh, Aaart dahling!
Sensitivity > outright prejudice ^^.
Because every single cubicle dweller is loaded with talent and isn't doing stuff like visiting CD on the company dime. /S
As a cubicle dweller myself, I know this to be the case. But I'm the boss so
The OP has done what is required of her, and her next step is to loosen up on the judgement. That desire to put her SIL in her place, now that OP knows this tidbit, is motivating her just as much as her concern for her brother, or else she wouldn't have felt compelled to include all that personal info about "life choices" in her post.
They've been married 20+ years; this isn't a new issue.
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