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And the only reason you know about the debt is because you happen to be their landlord.
You didn't emphasize that in your OP, though.
The thing is ... your post is FULL of judgments about them and their choices, or at least HER choices; zentropa wasn't too far off. You don't sound jealous. You sound self-righteous. Whether you meant to or not, you've written your post to show that you work a "real" job and do you "hobbies" on the side, presumably like smart people should, whereas she is pursuing a silly artsy fartsy dream for which she - tsk tsk - STILL owes student loans.
This is an easy "dilemma." Think about it this way: If you were renting a house, and your (non-family) landlord got a call from a collections agency asking about your debt, do you think s/he would come to you with an offer of financial education and assistance?
Try to keep it professional rather than personal. That's the more "fortunate position" in this situation.
I do have a hard time not judging someone who has chosen to pursue a dream for the past 10+ years rather than address student loans that have been in place for over 20 years when there are other employment options available to them. And it drags down my brother which is really where my problem lies. When one willingly takes on debt they should work to pay it off. I would certainly make an exception for medical debt or predatory debt but this is neither. If that crazy belief makes me a self-righteous a-hole in the eyes of most people then I guess I earned the title.
Many years ago my husband was laid off and for one year he tried making a living out of his hobby. He realized it wasn't going to provide a decent income and back to IT he went. He got it out of his system and now he doesn't have to think "what if". Finances were tight during that year - towards the end we were one mortgage payment away from asking my in-laws for help - the fun job lifestyle wasn't for us and we never want to return to that situation. Both my husband and I grew up with our parents always stressed and arguing about money and it definitely had an influence on who we are today.
IMO, lucky are the people who can make a decent living (not wealthy or extravagant, but can be satisfied with their lifestyles without struggling) and absolutely love their jobs. Most of the time, it comes down to doing what you love or doing what it takes to pay the bills. Seems like most people go with paying the bills.
If I received a call from a collections agency about a non-related tenant renting another property we own of course I wouldn't offer to help - not sure if I'd say something to them, but I would be alarmed about their ability to pay rent in the future. Because family is involved it is more complex than a simple landlord / tenant relationship and I don't want to see my brother suffer the consequences - he's a very good person and his wife makes him happy. He has been talking about saving up to buy a house and I hope he can make that a reality, but with this potential problem it could be a hurtle - that is why I don't think he knows about it. But in the meantime I'll be keeping my mouth shut and butting out of his business as long as the rent is paid on time.
Some of these debt collectors are crazy with their investigations. A few months back I received a similar call (well, a voicemail; I didn't pick up) from a collector that was looking for information on a roommate of mine from about 20 years ago.
This. My first husband was a financial train wreck and had creditors calling all the time. (We kept our finances separate; at least I did THAT right.) We eventually changed our phone number and paid to have it unlisted. When the house was on the market as our divorce was being finalized, a local realtor who had the same fairly uncommon last name as my Ex (I never changed my last name) came to show someone through the house and said she'd gotten a ton of calls from creditors looking for him.
If you live a lifestyle that you cant afford, is that not worthy of judgment? How low should we set the bar for the average person? Shouldn't we expect more from each other? Nothing wrong with making career decisions to follow your passions, that by itself is not worthy of judgment, but not paying your bills in a reasonable amount of time crosses the line into questionable behavior.
As long as you get to set the definitions of “reasonable” or get to decide what qualifies as a passion and what constitutes a “real” job, I’m sure you’d be fine with it.
When others do the judging, it suddenly seems a lot less helpful.
All a matter of personal priorities - I'd rather be slumped over in front of my computer ~10 hours a day then have debt collectors after me
Yeah but some of these student loan companies are brutal. I remember when I first started repayment, they’d literally start calling me with collections calls 5 times a day the day the payment was due, even though it took days (almost a week) for their system to process payment. People also have numerous difficulties with repayment plans and other tricks that have nothing to do with poor financial management but with the loan companies themselves engaging in shady practices. For example, I made a payment once and they applied it to interest and then started to barrage me with collections calls saying I was late because the principal had not been paid. This is not uncommon.
I find it hard to believe that a debt collector called an in-law's in-law before calling the husband of the person who owes the debt, so I'm guessing your brother is well aware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k
Not sure what your train of thought is behind helping, but I beg of you one thing: If you are thinking of paying it just to get the calls to stop, you're:
Especially when you can just say "stop calling me" to get the calls to stop... legally, they have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxEHxx
If you live a lifestyle that you cant afford, is that not worthy of judgment? How low should we set the bar for the average person? Shouldn't we expect more from each other?
Not really. Unless it affects OP's brother's ability to pay rent, or OP's brother asks for money, why should OP care?
Yeah but some of these student loan companies are brutal. I remember when I first started repayment, they’d literally start calling me with collections calls 5 times a day the day the payment was due, even though it took days (almost a week) for their system to process payment. People also have numerous difficulties with repayment plans and other tricks that have nothing to do with poor financial management but with the loan companies themselves engaging in shady practices. For example, I made a payment once and they applied it to interest and then started to barrage me with collections calls saying I was late because the principal had not been paid. This is not uncommon.
Ugh - sounds as byzantine as dealing with medical bills. Hopefully it's a mix-up like the one you're describing so all the more reason to keep quiet. My SIL did mention that she was only paying the interest on her loans. Not an ideal situation but she was making the payments.
Despite the accusations I've received on this thread of being self-righteous and arts-hating, I do think student loans should be discharged with bankruptcy like other forms of debt which used to be the case until the laws changed in the 90's. However, the proposals presented by Liz Warren and Bernie to eliminate all student debt is a slippery slope and I don't agree with that solution. Maybe just bringing back the old laws to discharge student debt in bankruptcy would be a better (and much more affordable) solution.
I find it hard to believe that a debt collector called an in-law's in-law before calling the husband of the person who owes the debt, so I'm guessing your brother is well aware.
Not really. Unless it affects OP's brother's ability to pay rent, or OP's brother asks for money, why should OP care?
It actually didn't occur to me until you pointed it out that it's possible my brother also received a call, although he might have figured it's a scam and disregarded it.
I care because I don't want to see my brother in financial distress.
TL;DR version - a debt collector call my husband trying to get in touch with my brother’s wife. I don’t think my brother knows. We are in a position to help them out but not sure if we should tell my brother.
Full story:
The other day my husband received an odd call requesting contact information for my brother’s wife. My husband said he wouldn’t give out her contact information but they gave a phone number for her to call back and a reference number. My husband texted the information to my SIL and she eventually replied with a long drawn out story about how it is some type of a scam. My husband did a reverse lookup and the number was for a debt collector. I called the number back myself and it was definitely a legitimate debt collection company.
My brother’s wife quit her career 10+ years ago to pursue working independently in the arts - they have lived paycheck to paycheck ever since. My brother has an OK job with benefits, but he’s not pulling in a big salary. They live in a reasonably low cost of living area and don’t have kids. She’s in her mid-40’s and I know she still has significant student loan debt from undergrad - the collection agency that called us is owned by Sallie Mae so pretty easy to put one and one together.
My husband and I are very fortunate to be in a position to help them out, but we’re hesitant to get involved or interfere. We’re in the process of selling a car to them but we’re not even sure if they can afford it now. We’re also their landlords which is probably why my husband received the call.
Part of me wants to reach out to my brother, suggest they work with a legitimate debt consolidation firm and work out an arrangement and I can help them out as necessary (he does urgently need the car we’re selling to him). I wouldn’t help them out unless they present me with a plan to address the debt and in all fairness his wife needs to get a real J.O.B. Her fun “job” in the arts clearly isn’t paying the bills. My husband and I work non-fun corporate IT jobs so we can live comfortably and we enjoy our hobbies when we’re not working. I don’t want to help them out if she still refuses to face reality, but I don’t want to see my brother suffer financially nor do I want to cause problems in his marriage. AFAIK their marriage is reasonably stable but she wears the pants.
Or I could just stay out of it and see if my brother comes to me which is the approach my husband and I are leaning towards.
I don’t want to talk to any friends or family about this dilemma since I’d like to keep it private, but want to get thoughts from others and at least it’s somewhat anonymous on this board.
It actually didn't occur to me until you pointed it out that it's possible my brother also received a call, although he might have figured it's a scam and disregarded it.
I care because I don't want to see my brother in financial distress.
Your brother is responsible for it because they're married, so I do understand why you're concerned. I would be too with my brother and his wife living in my house.
People not paying their student loans is a huge peeve of mine. There's a reason people are not able to claim it on bankruptcy. They committed to that debt when they felt they deserved college. I didn't go because I didn't want huge loans. I bet she stopped paying the interest which is why the phone calls. Does she think it will just go away? That college debt will haunt them if they're together when they retire.
You seem to have a good relationship with your brother and if you do, you can start a convo with him about the phone call to see if he got one too.
The fact that your SIL works her "fun" job would really eat at me since she's pulling your brother down from getting farther in life.
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