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I can certainly understand why the OP is concerned about her brother and his future. If he can't figure out how to get a downpayment together during good economic times, what will he do during the inevitable lean times?
But can't help but think of how things have changed. When I was growing up, my mother wanted to get a job and my father threw a three yard fit. He could support the family. It was insulting to think he needed his wife to work. She did go to work, but it was over his strenuous objections.
Now, being able to bring in an income is considered part of parcel of being a wife. Even if you devote your waking hours to creating a home, if you don't bring in an income, you're considered a slacker.
I watch our daughters struggle with working, managing a home, and raising babies and my heart goes out to them.
My brother-in-law got a call from a debt collector regarding "Missy Smith." My daughter's name is "Missy" but has a different last name from me due to my current/ second marriage, thus she had never used "Smith" as her name. BIL, of course refused to give them any info. We eventually realized it was our nephew's wife from whom he was separated, as her name is also "Missy" and she does use "Smith." So, the call may have come because he is the landlord or maybe not.
Anyway, I would stay out of it. Don't get money involved within a family. We did and now wish we hadn't. We loaned our daughter money for a divorce and she has made no effort whatsoever to pay it back even though she got a HUGE tax return due to the change in filing status, and I do mean HUGE, as in enough to pay us back the attorney fees and still have thousands left, more than the attorney fees in fact. Plus, we put her on our phone plan because money was so tight for her when she left him, though she was supposed to pay for her phone service, gave her money for food and other things, as well as bought food for her and our 2 GDs. It's been 17 going on 18 months and she's made 4 phone payments, 3 at the beginning, with me nagging and reminding her about the last 1, which was 11 months after the last payment she made. She will soon be 90 days late since I told her she needed to start paying again. And we're not even asking for the full amount of her phone cost, we're still helping her by almost $15 a month!
Don't misunderstand, I told her to stop paying for the phone while the ex wasn't paying child support, BUT, he is finally paying now, albeit late, plus she has recently gotten a better paying job and she's still not paying for her phone service. I've reminded her that it was just temporary. Now, I'm in a position where I'm going to have to decide whether to keep paying for her phone or cut her off, which I really resent. And she's probably mad at me, in fact I'm sure she is.
The morale of my story is DON'T involve yourself in their money anymore than you already have. It's bad enough you are their landlord and are selling them a car, which I would never, ever do.
My brother-in-law got a call from a debt collector regarding "Missy Smith." My daughter's name is "Missy" but has a different last name from me due to my current/ second marriage, thus she had never used "Smith" as her name. BIL, of course refused to give them any info. We eventually realized it was our nephew's wife from whom he was separated, as her name is also "Missy" and she does use "Smith." So, the call may have come because he is the landlord or maybe not.
Anyway, I would stay out of it. Don't get money involved within a family. We did and now wish we hadn't. We loaned our daughter money for a divorce and she has made no effort whatsoever to pay it back even though she got a HUGE tax return due to the change in filing status, and I do mean HUGE, as in enough to pay us back the attorney fees and still have thousands left, more than the attorney fees in fact. Plus, we put her on our phone plan because money was so tight for her when she left him, though she was supposed to pay for her phone service, gave her money for food and other things, as well as bought food for her and our 2 GDs. It's been 17 going on 18 months and she's made 4 phone payments, 3 at the beginning, with me nagging and reminding her about the last 1, which was 11 months after the last payment she made. She will soon be 90 days late since I told her she needed to start paying again. And we're not even asking for the full amount of her phone cost, we're still helping her by almost $15 a month!
Don't misunderstand, I told her to stop paying for the phone while the ex wasn't paying child support, BUT, he is finally paying now, albeit late, plus she has recently gotten a better paying job and she's still not paying for her phone service. I've reminded her that it was just temporary. Now, I'm in a position where I'm going to have to decide whether to keep paying for her phone or cut her off, which I really resent. And she's probably mad at me, in fact I'm sure she is.
The morale of my story is DON'T involve yourself in their money anymore than you already have. It's bad enough you are their landlord.
Agree.
If you "loan" money to a family member, it's best to do it with the understanding that it is a gift.
Time for a chat with your daughter about how much she owes you with a plan for paying it back. Make it clear that you are not going to remind her, but if she declines to pay you back there will be no more "loans." Ever.
No matter how late her ex is with the child support, no matter what catastrophe arises, ... The Bank of Mom & Dad is closed until she pays what she owes.
Then inform her that she needs to get her own cell phone account as you will be closing the one you are paying for.
Don't accuse her of being a deadbeat or of taking advantage of you. Be calm. Explain that you want her to stand on her own two feet, be independent and that this money business is causing a rift between you, so need to settle it.
We've done this one of our kids and it was a rough patch. But so much easier now that we are not entangled in their finances.
Hate is a strong word!
Using your own words in post # 41 : aren’t you mistaking trying to extrapolate a simple conflict into a sociopolitical argument?
( You just made my point that we are not totally free to make our life choices! Just in addition to luck and circumstances I would add an actual person and their responsibility who is at least somewhat in charge of their life’s destiny)
Wonder where the starving artist SIL would live today if the cubicle dweller OP would not rent them her property- they may not pass a credit check with the other landlords...
Looks like another problem is being solved by OP too for her SIL- she is selling them her car.
I bet they got a good deal on both.
The OP has the right to judge them for their life choices and be involved if she wants to do that.
The brother and her SILsurrendered their right for their life choices when they became dependent on the OP’s help.
and start getting calls from debt collectors.
I have worked among many talented artists/creative people. There are some people who are delusional about their talent and/or the ability to sustain a lifestyle based on their talent. If they were living within their means, fine but things like inability to afford a needed car and having debt collectors suggests they are not. This is where the judgment comes in especially when a family member may be financially adversely impacted.
However, I do agree the OP should not get involved as there are marriage dynamics that are at play and should be between husband and wife in addition to the fact that the OP's attitude about financial affairs will probably not mesh well with SIL and brother's especially if they are more laissez-faire.
The OP has the right to judge them for their life choices and be involved if she wants to do that.
The brother and her SILsurrendered their right for their life choices when they became dependent on the OP’s help.
This^^^
Sounds like you are close to your brother and care for him.
In this situation- you need to mention the call from the collectors.
Let him lead the conversation- so my suggestion mention this call in person- you may observe his reaction.
Even could ask him if he can afford the car you are selling to him.
Go from there. I would not rush with offer of help right away - not a monetary help at least.
You are already helping- I bet his rental from you is reasonable and the car you are selling to him probably has a good price for him?
Agree, the OP shouldn't rush to bail them out by giving them money. I wouldn't give them any money at all. The OP helps them enough and if she gives them money is only contributing to the SIL not getting a job with her degree that could help pay the student loans. SIL will never wake up and help them stop being dependent on the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
Only if he asks for help/ advise - you may reconsider after talking to your husband regarding the conditions of your help: credit reports, full financial disclosure, credit counseling, make him sign a note, etc.
Maybe even consider arranging for a separate finances- filing separately- depending on their situation..
Why would they separate finances or file separate? Asking because her brother is responsible for that student loan because they're married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
As you are not privy of your brother’s financial situation- you could be throwing your money out of the window if he/ they are forced to claim bankruptcy (they may have a huge credit card debt)
Agree they could have huge credit card debt. If they do have a lot of debt, they should consider filing bankruptcy because that would free up money where they'd be able to repay the student loan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me
As his landlord you probably could pull their credit report on them?
You seem jealous that your sister in law has a fun, fulfilling job and you don't. If they are not complaining about or asking for money, stay out of it. You have no idea what agreements and concessions they have made in their marriage.
As someone wise once said, stop counting other people's money.
I don't think you sound jealous, but somewhat judgmental regarding you SIL quitting her job. In any case, you should stay out of it.
I would have hung up on the collector and blocked the number - and would not tell anyone anything.
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