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Using public schools and my tax money to indoctrinate kids how you think they should be programmed, or allowing a choice of how their parents think they should be educated is not a threat to you in any way.
You would NOT have anyone's beliefs shoved down your throat anymore than you do now if my neighbors took a quarter of the $8000 cost of their kid going to public school and put it towards private school tuition.
Fact: Many religions discriminate against gays.
So my tax money would go toward indoctrinating children into believing gay people are sinners.
SO -- because I don't happen to be gay, that means it should not concern me? That it does not affect me? Really?
So gays, who will always be in the minority, are the only ones who can speak up against this indoctrination? (...this discrimination that is being shoved down all of our throats, even if we do not believe in it or accept it.)
Unbelievable.
Separation of church and state. Why do so few understand it?
And apparently, you have never taken college-level religion courses. I may be going out on a limb here, but I do believe those at UNC differ significantly from Dr. Bob's Bible College.
Do the public universities present religion only from a detached view, although NCSU says that their curriculum supports a career in the ministry?
Yes. It's basically a liberal arts curricula which focuses on religions as historical and cultural subjects. Most real churches require their clergy to have that level of background. What you're thinking of is divinity school or seminary, which is where prospective clergy go to train specifically for religious service, generally as postgraduate education. Most divinity schools don't require a specific major, though they generally prefer a strong liberal arts background.
Basically religious studies:divinity school :: pre-law:law school
Exactly. Huge difference. Sometimes you have to spell things out for people.
I do not "abhor" religion. I "abhor" people shoving their beliefs down my throat.
I would love to see a required course in all public high schools: "Religions of the World." It's important to understand what people believe.
But I think it would be nearly impossible to find teachers who would teach it and not preach it -- because as we see in this example, people do not understand the difference.
See, that's just the thing. No human is completely objective. Whether we like it or not, and as much as we try to be open-minded (or maybe not) and see others points of view, we all have a bent that colors our perspective. In the public schools, students are indoctrinated with an atheistic world view. There is no doubt about that. It is woven into the curriculum. I have looked at the NC curriculum and to a limited degree, evaluated it. It definitely indoctrinates, not teaches, an atheistic world view. The reason I say it indoctrinates is because throughout the curriculum in all subjects (I've even seen this in math!) statements are made that assumes there is not a G-d. Students taught this way don't even realize they are learning this particular worldview. It just becomes natural for them. So this so-called objective curriculum is actually just indoctrinating kids in a different way and it's one that happens to support your personal beliefs, so you're okay with it.
What is funny, though, is that this is a really good reason that you should NOT support lack of choice in education. This model could turn on you. What if times changed and the popular vote was to reinstate religious schooling in public schools? (Probably not in our lifetimes, but it could certainly happen at some point in time...civilizations change.) Then you would be fighting for the freedom to take your kids out of the religious public school and using the tax money that you pay anyway to educate them as you saw fit.
And my comment about spelling things out was not intended to be snarky. I know it sounded that way and I'm sorry. I was just saying that we're not communicating well and there have been several misunderstandings so we should be more careful not to leave things for the other posters to come to their own logical conclusions. We all think differently and have different life experiences that color our perspective. It's hard to have an effective dialogue on a message board.
See, that's just the thing. No human is completely objective. Whether we like it or not, and as much as we try to be open-minded (or maybe not) and see others points of view, we all have a bent that colors our perspective. In the public schools, students are indoctrinated with an atheistic world view. There is no doubt about that. It is woven into the curriculum. I have looked at the NC curriculum and to a limited degree, evaluated it. It definitely indoctrinates, not teaches, an atheistic world view. The reason I say it indoctrinates is because throughout the curriculum in all subjects (I've even seen this in math!) statements are made that assumes there is not a G-d. Students taught this way don't even realize they are learning this particular worldview. It just becomes natural for them. So this so-called objective curriculum is actually just indoctrinating kids in a different way and it's one that happens to support your personal beliefs, so you're okay with it.
Oh lord gimme whatever it is you're smoking. It sounds like some heady stuff.
So my tax money would go toward indoctrinating children into believing gay people are sinners.
SO -- because I don't happen to be gay, that means it should not concern me? That it does not affect me? Really?
So gays, who will always be in the minority, are the only ones who can speak up against this indoctrination? (...this discrimination that is being shoved down all of our throats, even if we do not believe in it or accept it.)
Unbelievable.
Separation of church and state. Why do so few understand it?
And apparently, you have never taken college-level religion courses. I may be going out on a limb here, but I do believe those at UNC differ significantly from Dr. Bob's Bible College.
Taxation in the name of Separation of Church and State is truly an odd rejoinder. As you were kind enough to mention, I am logical. That puts me at the disadvantage of needing some ongoing logic in the conversation.
Why so hung up on gays as a reason to indoctrinate kids differently than some parents may choose?
Do you propose that all private schools teach aberrational judgmental education and fear and loathing rather than skills and comprehension?
Or is it just easier to hate haters proactively without knowing if there are haters to hate?
Tell you what. Pretend that 50% of my school taxes go to public schools and 50% of my school taxes go to promote education, and 100% of yours goes wherever you need it to to feel good.
Separation of church and state. Why do so few understand it?
Thomas Jefferson's words on separation of church and state from Wikipedia: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Separation of church and state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If schools of all religions were able to accept vouchers, how does this contradict this separation? The state would not be prohibiting free exercise or making any established religion. Citizens would be free to choose how, where and in what cultural and religious circles their children were educated. Religious organizations get government money to provide other social services. What makes educational services different?
Thomas Jefferson's words on separation of church and state from Wikipedia: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Separation of church and state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If schools of all religions were able to accept vouchers, how does this contradict this separation? The state would not be prohibiting free exercise or making any established religion. Citizens would be free to choose how, where and in what cultural and religious circles their children were educated. Religious organizations get government money to provide other social services. What makes educational services different?
Let's edit to say, "If all schools..."
Take religion out of the mix, just like government should.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 06-14-2013 at 11:33 AM..
Yes. It's basically a liberal arts curricula which focuses on religions as historical and cultural subjects. Most real churches require their clergy to have that level of background. What you're thinking of is divinity school or seminary, which is where prospective clergy go to train specifically for religious service, generally as postgraduate education. Most divinity schools don't require a specific major, though they generally prefer a strong liberal arts background.
Basically religious studies:divinity school :: pre-law:law school
Both universities receive Stafford loan funding starting at undergrad level through graduate schools.
Both Divinity schools are focused on Christian Ministry.
Both universities receive Stafford loan funding starting at undergrad level through graduate schools.
Both Divinity schools are focused on Christian Ministry.
Stretching.
Well, that was fun. I still think you're logical -- most of the time.
Both universities receive Stafford loan funding starting at undergrad level through graduate schools.
Both Divinity schools are focused on Christian Ministry.
You do realize what a loan is, right? That means the money gets paid back, with interest.
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