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She (Boxill) not only told the admin what the grade should be, she (Boxill) edited and elaborated the papers themselves -- all according to recent reports in the N&O. Highly unethical. Why was she even communicating with the Admin? Then she professed to be "shocked!" when she was outed, as did the captain of police in the old movie in Casa Blanca. To add to the hypocrisy, she is the author of books on sports ethics and gender roles. The irony is that she evidently betrayed her school in the interest of the women's basketball team which is a minor sport at best, irrespective of its gender role, whatever that might be.
Evidently the N&O and I are not the only ones to believe the evidence behind these accusations, as she is no longer director of the center on ethics, teaching philosophy, or involved with the faculty senate, at least according to reports that I have read. Moreover, it is not clear how an untenured instructor could be chair of the faculty senate under the best of conditions.
UNC is a great institution and should remain so, and will remain so, but attempts to stonewall the incident will only make matters worse, as Richard Nixon learned the hard way. The privy rats need to be outed and removed, no matter how many of them there might be and regardless of their stations in life.
Stonewalling? They allowed an independent investigator free rein to flesh out any and all information and perpetrators related to the paper class scandal. My guess is the investigation results are down to bone marrow at this point. Remember, this is the third pass but clearly not enough to satisfy the anti-UNC posse. Remediation measures started awhile back and this recent report is basically to sanitize the residual. I highly doubt anyone else tangentially associated with the scandal took action to promote or collude with the unethical behavior, possibly reprimanded for inaction and do think those parties have been identified and punished accordingly.
Not sure what else is left to uncover. If anything the irony keeps on giving, as fate would have it athletes are crying foul for being pampered and provided extraordinarily unethical means to remain academically eligible.
I think the state of NC should conduct similar probes at each of it's state supported institutions given what has unfolded at UNC. Identify any clustering of courses amongst athletes and thoroughly investigate.
Any proof of that? Seems to be just a diversion tactic from the story at UNC.
A friend who is a student athlete at NC state who had an academic adviser write a paper for her without even asking?
The fact that student athletes getting bs classes and degrees has been a fairly widely known "secret" for years and unfortunately something that has been considered "normal" for a long time now?
Again; I don't deny (nor do most Carolina fans, students, alumni, etc) that what came out of the Wainstein report is bad nor do I think it should be ignored. However it is pretty laughable that the people making the most noise about it are NC State fans who are under the delusion and this is somehow going to "take down" Carolina athletics and they will now take their "rightful spot" as the top public university/athletic program in North Carolina.
Rogue coach
Rogue tutor
Rogue player
Rogue assistant
Rogue department head
Rogue this
Rogue that
Furthermore, these fanboys say "everyone does it" or simply insult anyone with the audacity to point out how incredibly grimy the whole sordid mess is... Tsk, tsk.
Rogue coach
Rogue tutor
Rogue player
Rogue assistant
Rogue department head
Rogue this
Rogue that
Furthermore, these fanboys say "everyone does it" or simply insult anyone with the audacity to point out how incredibly grimy the whole sordid mess is... Tsk, tsk.
Happy?
Every single faculty member and student at UNC has committed fraud. The University will close now. Every degree handed out over the past 220 years will be revoked. We'll implode the Dean Dome and Kenan Stadium (and Carmichael too while we're at it) as they are hollowed ground.
We'll paint the Old Well red and remove the actual bell from the bell-tower. From now on all of the land between Franklin Street and Manning; and Columbia to Country Club will be known as "Far West Campus"
You win.
Last edited by TarHeelNick; 11-11-2014 at 09:30 PM..
First, the N&O is probably the least reliable source of information regarding this scandal. They have repeatedly published half-truths and insinuations that aren't borne out by the facts. Second, read the Wainstein report for yourself--no need to rely on the N&O's interpretation. Yes, Boxill told the admin what grade was needed in one case, but this was for a women's basketball player who had already used up her eligibility. The grade was needed for graduation, not for athletic eligibility. Still not good, but this instance is not an "athletic scandal". Yet the N&O has given you the impression that it was.
This attitude is what I refer to as "stonewalling." Moreover, I am not at all of the opinion that this is an athletic scandal. I have repeatedly asked about the 50% of the students going through these "classes" who were not athletes. If it were only an athletic scandal, I would not care so much -- I understand the motivation behind an athletic scandal, but not for this.
Quote:
And regarding whether Boxill "edited and elaborated the papers", the report states:
These are just several of the instances where Boxill provided text for her players’ papers.
While we never found evidence that she wrote lengthy sections like Wiley did, she clearly was “feeding” her players with sentences and the occasional paragraph of text. When we pressed her on the appropriateness of this conduct, Boxill expressed the belief that it was acceptable for a tutor to make such modest contributions to a paper. While it would clearly be wrong to do wholesale drafting, she said, a tutor’s suggestion of a sentence or two or a brief conclusion was “minor” and “not substantive.”
Again, not good. But offering "minor" suggestions is very different from writing lengthy sections.
Your interpretation is completely wrong. It is never acceptable for a hired tutor to lay a hand on a student's paper. If this woman has said what you quote, she may be either a liar or a nincompoop, or both. Moreover, she is likely the most unreliable source imaginable regarding claims about the extent and ethics of her own infractions. Note carefully that the report states "Boxill expressed the belief" and "she said" rather than "this is what we found."
Quote:
As I've said earlier, I am disgusted by this scandal, and clearly those involved should pay (and have paid) the price. But I'm just as disgusted by the media's inaccurate and sensationalist reporting of this, and the assumption that UNC is somehow alone in this sort of behavior. Report the facts--fine. Report half-truths and insinuations--not fine.
Nobody -- NOBODY -- has said or suggested that Carolina is alone. Anyone who values higher education understands that this is a widespread problem, and welcomes similar investigations at other D-1 schools.
Quote:
Essentially it comes down to this: Dr. Nyang'oro and his assistant (Crowder) severely violated academic standards and expectations when they 1) conducted paper classes that were purported to be lecture classes, and 2) allowed Crowder to assign grades to papers that she barely read, if at all. That is a huge problem, and they bear the responsibility for that. The Wainstein investigation found no evidence that anyone else (and particularly ayone in athletics) knew what they were doing, although there were certainly red flags that should have been acted upon.
This is simply denial.
And the State-v-Carolina undertone of this thread is nothing but attempts at childish destruction of both institutions. Both of these schools are excellent, and are among North Carolina's most valuable institutions.
Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 11-12-2014 at 04:08 AM..
I think the state of NC should conduct similar probes at each of it's state supported institutions given what has unfolded at UNC. Identify any clustering of courses amongst athletes and thoroughly investigate.
Good suggestion. In particular, vacuous "studies" programs such as AFAM and the like should be scrutinized.
Last edited by Hamish Forbes; 11-12-2014 at 04:11 AM..
Every single faculty member and student at UNC has committed fraud. The University will close now. Every degree handed out over the past 220 years will be revoked. We'll implode the Dean Dome and Kenan Stadium (and Carmichael too while we're at it) as they are hollowed ground.
We'll paint the Old Well red and remove the actual bell from the bell-tower. From now on all of the land between Franklin Street and Manning; and Columbia to Country Club will be known as "Far West Campus"
You win.
Reductio ad absurdum. A weak mind's favorite logical fallacy.
This attitude is what I refer to as "stonewalling." Moreover, I am not at all of the opinion that this is an athletic scandal. I have repeatedly asked about the 50% of the students going through these "classes" who were not athletes. If it were only an athletic scandal, I would not care so much -- I understand the motivation behind an athletic scandal, but not for this.
I think we're on the same page here. I'm not "stonewalling" anything--indeed I'm trying to make the point that this is an academic scandal and NOT an athletics scandal, as you say. My frustration is with the media, many of whom have taken the athletics angle and run with it, making all kinds of incorrect assumptions and false conclusions. Not stonewalling, but rather a desire to see the facts reported correctly (which are bad enough on their own without the embellishment).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
Your interpretation is completely wrong. It is never acceptable for a hired tutor to lay a hand on a student's paper. If this woman has said what you quote, she may be either a liar or a nincompoop, or both. Moreover, she is likely the most unreliable source imaginable regarding claims about the extent and ethics of her own infractions. Note carefully that the report states "Boxill expressed the belief" and "she said" rather than "this is what we found."
I agree that the "help" Boxill gave was not acceptable, and I never said it is acceptable. The point of what I wrote is that Boxill was trying to help the students improve their work, rather than doing it for them. A fine line, for sure, but an important one in determining whether this was a massive conspiracy to keep athletes eligible (as has been reported by many in the media). Maybe she was doing more than she said, but the investigation found no evidence of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
Nobody -- NOBODY -- has said or suggested that Carolina is alone. Anyone who values higher education understands that this is a widespread problem, and welcomes similar investigations at other D-1 schools.
You are wrong about this. Sensationalist headlines such as "the worst athletics scandal in NCAA history" are common in the media, and the finger pointing from the media and fans of other schools is rampant (just look at comments from some of our friends on this thread). You are absolutely correct that this is a widespread problem, which is the point I've been making all along. The investigation report stresses that Crowder and Nyang'oro seemed to be motivated to help marginal kids get through a situation for which they were ill prepared; not that they were trying to keep athletes eligible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes
This is simply denial.
Denial? I merely summarized what the report said. Since the report didn't implicate anyone in the athletics department, there's nothing to deny. It's an academic scandal, remember?
Arby -- thanks for your reply. I think that we agree a lot more than we disagree.
I am a Carolina supporter emotionally and financially, as I know you are. That's why this troubles me so much. Let's hope the drama is soon over, and has as good an outcome as it can given the circumstances.
I am a Carolina supporter emotionally and financially, as I know you are. That's why this troubles me so much. Let's hope the drama is soon over, and has as good an outcome as it can given the circumstances.
If that lawsuit is allowed to proceed, (posted above), it's not likely to end soon. In fact more dirt will probably be dug up.
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