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After the Civil War, leaving the union was made illegal. That law was cited as an excuse to remove a ballot question in Camden & Gloucester Counties in South Jersey when we tried to form the state of South Jersey when officials realized that it was going to pass.
Just the same, we need to keep as many visible reminders as possible that the Civil War was a horrendous idea. I couldn't agree with you more.
Yes, I see that you are correct. In 1869 the Supreme Court ruled that secession by states from the Union is illegal. As I know you understand, in 1860 the concept of secession was not so defined.
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Originally Posted by carolinadawg2
Yes, I see that you are correct. In 1869 the Supreme Court ruled that secession by states from the Union is illegal. As I know you understand, in 1860 the concept of secession was not so defined.
Yes, in 1860 some people thought it was a great idea.
Oddly, the ballot question was only removed in 2 of the counties & proceeded to pass in the others. I didn't realize that it was a Supreme Court ruling. We were simply told that it was illegal & told that it was a post Civil War law. It was really just bs to remove a legal question from our ballots as we were not planning to leave the country. However, it did give me the weird piece of trivia for today.
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Originally Posted by carolinadawg2
Yes, I see that you are correct. In 1869 the Supreme Court ruled that secession by states from the Union is illegal. As I know you understand, in 1860 the concept of secession was not so defined.
Honestly, I think that there's a lot of people who are just unhinged. They're on a witch hunt. Tonight WBTV covered a big stink in Salisbury over a Confederate memorial. It seems that people are claiming that it commemorates some lynchings. Someone dug up the 1908 newspaper article about the dedication. It was paid for by the Daughters of the Confederacy & had nothing to do with any lynchings.
Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with people. These monuments are typical of the era. I keep seeing monuments that look like monuments that you see in Laurel Hill cemetery in Philadelphia from the same time period. There was nothing magically sinister about them. They were probably ordered from a catalogue.
Honestly, I think that there's a lot of people who are just unhinged. They're on a witch hunt. Tonight WBTV covered a big stink in Salisbury over a Confederate memorial. It seems that people are claiming that it commemorates some lynchings. Someone dug up the 1908 newspaper article about the dedication. It was paid for by the Daughters of the Confederacy & had nothing to do with any lynchings.
Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with people. These monuments are typical of the era. I keep seeing monuments that look like monuments that you see in Laurel Hill cemetery in Philadelphia from the same time period. There was nothing magically sinister about them. They were probably ordered from a catalogue.
These statues and memorials were originally intended to honor the achievements of certain people, but I think that their reason for existence is different today. To me it's simply to remember the past so it isn't repeated. I really wish people would leave them alone. History lovers (like me) love all history - not just the pretty parts. And I love statues and memorials.
If you want to get real about, there aren't many white people from the pre-1960s in any region of the US that weren't at least somewhat racist, so I guess we should tear down all historical memorials? We need a little perspective here...historical figures are a product of their era and their other achievements shouldn't be diminished by a very common and widespread notion of racial superiority. I don't like it, but unfortunately it's the way the world was at one time.
These statues and memorials were originally intended to honor the achievements of certain people, but I think that their reason for existence is different today. To me it's simply to remember the past so it isn't repeated. I really wish people would leave them alone. History lovers (like me) love all history - not just the pretty parts. And I love statues and memorials.
If you want to get real about, there aren't many white people from the pre-1960s in any region of the US that weren't at least somewhat racist, so I guess we should tear down all historical memorials? We need a little perspective here...historical figures are a product of their era and their other achievements shouldn't be diminished by a very common and widespread notion of racial superiority. I don't like it, but unfortunately it's the way the world was at one time.
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Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
These statues and memorials were originally intended to honor the achievements of certain people, but I think that their reason for existence is different today. To me it's simply to remember the past so it isn't repeated. I really wish people would leave them alone. History lovers (like me) love all history - not just the pretty parts. And I love statues and memorials.
If you want to get real about, there aren't many white people from the pre-1960s in any region of the US that weren't at least somewhat racist, so I guess we should tear down all historical memorials? We need a little perspective here...historical figures are a product of their era and their other achievements shouldn't be diminished by a very common and widespread notion of racial superiority. I don't like it, but unfortunately it's the way the world was at one time.
Honestly, like all baby boomers, I grew up before political correctness was invented. People had names & stereotypes for people who were different from themselves & it was not limited to race.
I've seen statues of angels carrying soldiers north of the Mason Dixon line. Statues of Civil War soldiers wearing kepis can be seen north & south because the kepis were worn in all eastern theater armies. Western theater soldiers rarely wore those hats.
Victorian-era speeches were filled with flowery language, spoken by individuals, usually men, who lived in a world filled by prejudices for race, gender, & religion.
I'd say the United States' treatment of Native Americans is a far closer parallel to nazi germany. But I'm sure you're far too "patriotic" too even consider that.
The US has practiced slavery and genocide in the past and it's funny that we were taught that we were "the good guys" in school while at the same time we were being taught about these atrocities. We celebrate Columbus Day... which if you're a Native American is sort of like if you were a Jew living in Germany and they had a 'Hitler Day'. Personally I think that's the most offensive thing we do and it's something we really should stop doing.
Most of North Carolina's named landmarks were named after segregationists or slaveowners. You'd have to rename the whole state to get rid of all homage to all of them. It's pointless. It's part of our history and we should remember it--not to worship it but like JoeTarheel said as a reminder of what not to do.
The US has practiced slavery and genocide in the past and it's funny that we were taught that we were "the good guys" in school while at the same time we were being taught about these atrocities. We celebrate Columbus Day... which if you're a Native American is sort of like if you were a Jew living in Germany and they had a 'Hitler Day'. Personally I think that's the most offensive thing we do and it's something we really should stop doing.
Most of North Carolina's named landmarks were named after segregationists or slaveowners. You'd have to rename the whole state to get rid of all homage to all of them. It's pointless. It's part of our history and we should remember it--not to worship it but like JoeTarheel said as a reminder of what not to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It's the misinformation and omission of history that seemingly glorifies the good deeds and accomplishments of the forefathers while straining at the core to even admit extreme faults such as being slave owners. I watched a history show over the weekend, something along the lines of "10 things you didn't know about the forefathers". They discussed financial challenges, etc. However, any reference to owning slaves, etc was politely omitted, yet slaves were depicted in pictures.
Quite frankly, it's just easier to romanticize the notion of forefathers being esteemed gents and noble men without human frailty. It has skewed the balance of truth and has snowballed into things of legends and lies and some people actually believe that sh*t....why not? They've heard it a billion times.
But that's the problem, if only the truth would be taught or learned from monuments, etc...then ok. But the track record ain't good, no way in hell the whole truth gets told, it's a painful tale and damages the respectability of family legacy, etc. I mean who wants to admit that their grandparents were the biggest bigots in the county.
I'm not sure it's any harder to realize your ancestors were bigots. As I don't think I am one today, knowing that my great-great-grandfather was one doesn't really change anything.
To me, the harder thing is balancing knowing that an ancestor of mine did something great while also knowing that he or she was a bigot. Do I celebrate or deride that person?
I mean who wants to admit that their grandparents were the biggest bigots in the county.
Virtually everyone alive in 1860 was a bigot, in terms of today's definition of the word. Ever read Abraham Lincoln's views on the subject?
That's why people need to chill out on these monuments and the inscriptions on them. You have to read them in the context of the times they were written/erected, not as we interpret them today.
Last edited by carolinadawg2; 07-08-2015 at 03:32 PM..
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