Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Triangle should have light rail and quite frankly the reason we don't is because of conservative ass Raleigh. Both Durham and Chapel Hill are more progressive and have approved the light rail, not Wake. All of the transit systems in the US are taxpayer subsidized to stay afloat even the Airlines. Why waste my tax money on Amtrak or the Airlines if I don't use them?
When I lived in DC I rode the metro everywhere, all the time. Obviously you've never had to commute during rush hour or during other high traffic volume events in DC else you'd know better than trying to drive in that mess if by any means avoidable. When I worked downtown DC for the feds most of my colleagues rode the metro or VRE (Virginia Rail Express), etc...Rail service in Virginia - VRE.
Mass transit isn't about cherry picking one form versus another but making all options available to the general public. That's why "big" cities provide a myriad of options....all "big" cities. And the Triangle is at that point.
Wake as a whole doesn't want to pay for rail. Many in smaller towns don't want a big tax bill. So Raleigh and Cary can have rail. That's why the compromise of BRT and improved bus service to smaller towns came from. Frankly if I was a property owner/resident of Zebulon. I don't think I'd want a fat tax bill so Raleigh could have rail. Frankly many in the Charlotte area feel the same way. I've seen the articles. Some in smaller towns in Meck feel like the got hosed. Paying for transit that they will never use.
Amtrak,comparing apples and oranges. The reason the US GOVERNMENT subsidizes Amtrak is because it has too. Amtrak dose cover major cities yes. But I think the point is to connect very small rural area. Places that would otherwise be disconnected. Places without International airports. Possibly without easy access to interstate highways. The same reasons the Feds prop up Greyhound. It's in our national interest. So not really a valid comparison IMO.
I'll accept your point about rush hour in DC. I would want to drive there if my life depended on it.
I actually am happy with the BRT option Wake has chosen to go with. I think it will work for us. There is a rail component to the new transit plan. Commuter rail from Garner at Johnston county line. Worst traffic in the Triangle btw. Running all the way to the Park. Possibly connecting to Durhams upcoming light rail line.
Frankly I think we're pretty much covered on transportation in general. Once the transit plan is up and running. 540 is completed. The 40/440 improvements are complete. Durhams light rail is connected to Wakes commuter rail. There are some other major road improvements coming also. 70 up to the East end connector in Durham. Point being, I think the Triangle has its transportation house in order,for now. If the area continues to grow at this pace,.
QCdreaming. I've heard the Charlotte crew brag about a lot over the years. You're the first that I can recall bragging on it's road/highways. Which most would agree suck!
Maybe you don't know much about the Triangles highway system. Well actually that's quite obvious. No one would compare 40/440 to 485. The comparison would be between 485 and 540. Apples to apples. Also transit doesn't create development it concentrates it. It doesn't cause more people to move to a city maybe a particular area of a city. Those people were moving to Charlotte for example one way or another.
The drawback to Charlotte's ambitions should be obvious. In its attempt to be a world class big city,some things were overlooked. Two quick examples it's road system. Most would agree it sucks. Another example is the area schools,that frankly suck. There are some good schools yes. That's doesn't make up for the MANY that are terrible. We had this discussion a couple of years ago. Right around the time the state graded individual schools. There were almost as many schools in Meck with D's and F's as the are schools in all of Durham county. If my memory serves me correctly. That's pretty bad.
CLT1985 that looks like a couple more racks and bikes will be added,big whoop! Maybe in the end the two systems will be about the same size. Which isn't the end of the world.
The Triangle should have light rail and quite frankly the reason we don't is because of conservative ass Raleigh. Both Durham and Chapel Hill are more progressive and have approved the light rail, not Wake. All of the transit systems in the US are taxpayer subsidized to stay afloat even the Airlines. Why waste my tax money on Amtrak or the Airlines if I don't use them?
When I lived in DC I rode the metro everywhere, all the time. Obviously you've never had to commute during rush hour or during other high traffic volume events in DC else you'd know better than trying to drive in that mess if by any means avoidable. When I worked downtown DC for the feds most of my colleagues rode the metro or VRE (Virginia Rail Express), etc...Rail service in Virginia - VRE.
Mass transit isn't about cherry picking one form versus another but making all options available to the general public. That's why "big" cities provide a myriad of options....all "big" cities. And the Triangle is at that point.
The problem isn't because of conservatives, it's that Raleigh is not dense enough to warrant a light rail. Comparisons with DC are irrelevant because its density is almost four times that of Raleigh's. If Raleigh is going to build anything, it should be a commuter rail along I-40 to RTP, NOT a light rail. Currently, the city is way to spread out to benefit from a billion-dollar project that only benefits a couple thousand residents, especially considering that more than half of the Wake County residents who would be tasked with funding the light rail reside in surrounding towns that wouldn't benefit from it, such as Apex, Cary, FV, Garner, Holly Springs, Wake Forest, Zebulon, and etc.
Wake as a whole doesn't want to pay for rail. Many in smaller towns don't want a big tax bill. So Raleigh and Cary can have rail. That's why the compromise of BRT and improved bus service to smaller towns came from. Frankly if I was a property owner/resident of Zebulon. I don't think I'd want a fat tax bill so Raleigh could have rail. Frankly many in the Charlotte area feel the same way. I've seen the articles. Some in smaller towns in Meck feel like the got hosed. Paying for transit that they will never use.
Amtrak,comparing apples and oranges. The reason the US GOVERNMENT subsidizes Amtrak is because it has too. Amtrak dose cover major cities yes. But I think the point is to connect very small rural area. Places that would otherwise be disconnected. Places without International airports. Possibly without easy access to interstate highways. The same reasons the Feds prop up Greyhound. It's in our national interest. So not really a valid comparison IMO.
I'll accept your point about rush hour in DC. I would want to drive there if my life depended on it.
I actually am happy with the BRT option Wake has chosen to go with. I think it will work for us. There is a rail component to the new transit plan. Commuter rail from Garner at Johnston county line. Worst traffic in the Triangle btw. Running all the way to the Park. Possibly connecting to Durhams upcoming light rail line.
Frankly I think we're pretty much covered on transportation in general. Once the transit plan is up and running. 540 is completed. The 40/440 improvements are complete. Durhams light rail is connected to Wakes commuter rail. There are some other major road improvements coming also. 70 up to the East end connector in Durham. Point being, I think the Triangle has its transportation house in order,for now. If the area continues to grow at this pace,.
QCdreaming. I've heard the Charlotte crew brag about a lot over the years. You're the first that I can recall bragging on it's road/highways. Which most would agree suck!
Maybe you don't know much about the Triangles highway system. Well actually that's quite obvious. No one would compare 40/440 to 485. The comparison would be between 485 and 540. Apples to apples. Also transit doesn't create development it concentrates it. It doesn't cause more people to move to a city maybe a particular area of a city. Those people were moving to Charlotte for example one way or another.
The drawback to Charlotte's ambitions should be obvious. In its attempt to be a world class big city,some things were overlooked. Two quick examples it's road system. Most would agree it sucks. Another example is the area schools,that frankly suck. There are some good schools yes. That's doesn't make up for the MANY that are terrible. We had this discussion a couple of years ago. Right around the time the state graded individual schools. There were almost as many schools in Meck with D's and F's as the are schools in all of Durham county. If my memory serves me correctly. That's pretty bad.
CLT1985 that looks like a couple more racks and bikes will be added,big whoop! Maybe in the end the two systems will be about the same size. Which isn't the end of the world.
I'm not bragging about Charlotte's highways at all, however Charlotte does have 2 true beltway's. By the way transit DOES create development. That is exactly what TOD is. I actually am on the board for Greensboro Transit Authority and we are discussing this very same thing right now. I don't think you understand that at all. By the way ALL big cities have flaws. No city is perfect.
The problem isn't because of conservatives, it's that Raleigh is not dense enough to warrant a light rail. Comparisons with DC are irrelevant because its density is almost four times that of Raleigh's. If Raleigh is going to build anything, it should be a commuter rail along I-40 to RTP, NOT a light rail. Currently, the city is way to spread out to benefit from a billion-dollar project that only benefits a couple thousand residents, especially considering that more than half of the Wake County residents who would be tasked with funding the light rail reside in surrounding towns that wouldn't benefit from it, such as Apex, Cary, FV, Garner, Holly Springs, Wake Forest, Zebulon, and etc.
Last time I checked, Raleigh is the densest city in North Carolina. Charlotte was a much smaller area then Raleigh when it's LRT line was approved. Let's be serious. Neither city are that large or impressive. The closest big cities to both areas are ATL and DC.
Charlotte and Raleigh are both decent midsize metros with pro and cons. If Charlotte was the definition of some "BIG" city. Then id be very disappointed. Charlotte fits the bill of a decent midsize city.
Last time I checked, Raleigh is the densest city in North Carolina. Charlotte was a much smaller area then Raleigh when it's LRT line was approved. Let's be serious. Neither city are that large or impressive. The closest big cities to both areas are ATL and DC.
Charlotte and Raleigh are both decent midsize metros with pro and cons. If Charlotte was the definition of some "BIG" city. Then id be very disappointed. Charlotte fits the bill of a decent midsize city.
Decent?How many city's in the U.S. have 900,000 people?
Last time I checked, Raleigh is the densest city in North Carolina. Charlotte was a much smaller area then Raleigh when it's LRT line was approved. Let's be serious. Neither city are that large or impressive. The closest big cities to both areas are ATL and DC.
Charlotte and Raleigh are both decent midsize metros with pro and cons. If Charlotte was the definition of some "BIG" city. Then id be very disappointed. Charlotte fits the bill of a decent midsize city.
When the Lynx Blue line started construction in 2004 Charlotte had a population of 614,446.
When the Lynx Blue Line open Charlotte had a population of 669,690.
Between 2000 and 2010 Charlotte added 190,596 people.
No Charlotte was not the same siize as Raleigh it was bigger.
Raleigh's population in 2004 was 332,728
Raleigh's population in 2007 was 379,106
On Friday the wife and I had decided on Pizza at East and Camden. Parked on Camden no Parkiing fee after five. Pedestrian traffic was heavy in South End with people walking their dogs riding bikes or just sitting and talking at various venues. After pizza we decided to catch the rail to uptown. The train was packed. Got off at third street and walk to Romare Bearden to see the new sculpture and people watch. Had forgotten it was speed week the park was jammed and the Knights were playing in front of a large crowd across from the Park the skyline was sparkling. . Afterward we walked to Trade and Tryon past the food vendors thru the Epicenter and caught the train back to our Car. We encountered a very diverse crowd and heard different languages being spoken and tons of activity. With out the train we would not have went uptown. I can only imagine the effect the train to the North Davidson district and university will add to the urban experience you can enjoy in Charlotte. I have been to most of the "big cities" of the US. Charlotte with its vibrant downtown, world class airport and expanding transportation system, and home to over 800,00 may not make Charlotte a big city to some But the urban experience here can defiantly have that northeast big city vibe that I have not found when I am in the Triangle.
The problem isn't because of conservatives, it's that Raleigh is not dense enough to warrant a light rail. Comparisons with DC are irrelevant because its density is almost four times that of Raleigh's. If Raleigh is going to build anything, it should be a commuter rail along I-40 to RTP, NOT a light rail. Currently, the city is way to spread out to benefit from a billion-dollar project that only benefits a couple thousand residents, especially considering that more than half of the Wake County residents who would be tasked with funding the light rail reside in surrounding towns that wouldn't benefit from it, such as Apex, Cary, FV, Garner, Holly Springs, Wake Forest, Zebulon, and etc.
Never compared Raleigh to DC, just stated that most "big" cities have a myriad of transportation options including rail. All mass transit systems are subsidized by taxpayers even the airlines. If the area keeps growing at the current break neck pace the traffic bottlenecks will be nightmare in certain locations in 25 years. Only a few thousand would use it? BS. The naysayers seemingly think they're going to get 10% yearly tax hike to fund a choo-choo train.
Oh, everybody benefits, even those who will never use it. It would redirect growth patterns for denser development. If RDU growth rate was trending in a different direction, then ok, but it isn't so all options should be on the table. Everything, commuter rail, etc. Durham and Chapel Hill are onboard but big bad Raleigh isn't?
Charlotte made a bold and proactive move prior to becoming a "big" city...the handwriting is on the wall Sprawliegh. Gas is cheap for now but how long will that last?
Last edited by Big Aristotle; 05-28-2017 at 03:10 PM..
Looking at the 2016 population growth I find some interesting thing.
#16 Fort Worth 15.23% and #17 Charlotte 15.12% growth rate
#15 Indianapolis 4.23%
#14 Columbus Ohio 9.28%
#13 San Francisco 8.5%
#12 Jacksonville 7.6%
If Fort Worth and Charlotte maintain their present growth rate we could see #12 and #13 Change.
Last edited by CLT1985; 05-28-2017 at 06:20 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. 
