Scranton named one of the "10 best places for starting over" by MSN (Philadelphia: low income, fit in) - Northeastern Pennsylvania - Pennsylvania (PA) -Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Pocono area - Page 2 - City-Data Forum

ckhthankgod · 06-16-2011, 01:37 PM

frank754 · 06-16-2011, 02:49 PM

I agree with ckhthankgod, there are some good deals in upstate NY too, and I used to live there in the 80's. In Syracuse, most of the areas outside downtown seem to be good areas and highly "white" as well. Binghamton also has some good choices and reasonable prices, but my contention is (over NEPA), that the property taxes are a lot higher for the size house you get, and the electric cost is also a lot higher. Plus, once you get up into NY, the weather is quite a bit colder in winter, and more brutal the further north you go. In the Syracuse area, they get slammed with lake effect snow, I'm not sure about the cost of gas heat, but forget about electric heat. Very pretty country there though, and some of the best folks you'd want to know. The main reason we ended up in NEPA was for the affordable ($70k & lower) homes in the city, and taxes under $1500. Also, the fact that the Wyoming Valley has a very centralized population base, and convenience to drive to anywhere using the least amount of gas. The electric here isn't cheap either though, but I'm fairly sure it beats their NYSEG and NiMo by a good amount.

Lehigh Valley Native · 06-16-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntieannie68

housing is not really that much lower--here you get houses(not half doubles)for 1000 and up--lower means that it is in a unsafe area or has multi problems(holes in walls,broken windows,no appliances)-----that same price down south gets you an airconditioned house with ALL appliances in a community setting with use of gyms and pool(if one does not come with the house) and in a nice area

It can be almost half of areas in SEPA. Our home north of Allentown was just under 300,000k when I bought it nearly 10 years ago. 4 years ago we bought a 4 bedroom house in Kingston (in a nice section) for just over 100k. Although comparing the two houses are apples and oranges, the fact remains, nice houses in relatively clean neighborhoods can be had at a good prices.

That said, real estate costs for newer homes in the back mountain, mountain top can be nearly as expensive as areas in SEPA

sheena12 · 06-16-2011, 05:08 PM

Scranton and Wilkes-Barre are reasonable places to live, I am not comparing them to Long Island but to suburban Philadelphia and the Lehigh Valley.
Comperable homes seem to be at least 100K LESS in this area.

The major drawback to the Wyoming Valley are the poor to mediocre schools. Notable exceptions are Clark's Summit, (Abington Schools) Dallas and surrounding areas (Dallas Schools) and Mountain Top ( Crestwood Schools)
I think Clark's Summit really offers a good value for families who want a solid public school district.
Taxes in the entire area are so low that independent schools are affordable and accessible to most families who want to avail them selves of the many private school options.

No sure exactly what is meant by "starting over" Florida was once the state known for that, but the very low saleries and lack of strong unions, coupled with sub-standard schools cause many North Easterners to head home.

SteelCityRising · 06-16-2011, 06:28 PM

By "starting over" it's generally implied that someone is, well, "starting over". They may have been laid off from their job through no fault of their own, or they could have just spontaneously quit as they searched for new challenges, as I did. Some people just up and move to experience something new, as my friend's mother did. I was being run ragged by depression that I just couldn't shirk off when I lived in NoVA. Nothing helped, including expensive therapy. In desperation I decided to quit my job and uproot myself to move to a city I had only visited twice before in my life. I'm now happier than I've ever been.

It's not "easy" to start over anyplace, but it IS easier to do so where you can generally "get by". In Pittsburgh I'm roughly breaking even financially while being underemployed and am about to pick up a second job for some financial cushioning. In NYC I could be underemployed, have a roommate, and still be struggling.

Mr Yuk · 06-17-2011, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheena12

The major drawback to the Wyoming Valley are the poor to mediocre schools. Notable exceptions are Clark's Summit, (Abington Schools) Dallas and surrounding areas (Dallas Schools) and Mountain Top ( Crestwood Schools)
I think Clark's Summit really offers a good value for families who want a solid public school district.

This is a fallacy....the schools are not "better" in Clarks Summit, Dallas, Mtn Top, etc, its just that the test scores are skewed higher in those areas, because those are the schools where you have the children of doctors and other high-income professionals, so of course the test scores will be higher. I am of the opinion that the quality of teaching is no better in Clarks Summit than it is in Scranton, Pittston, Wilkes-Barre, Kingston, etc etc etc.

Also, it seems that many people in this area "grade" the schools by how many or how little "brown" people may attend those schools.....

theatergypsy · 06-17-2011, 08:38 AM

In many instances, parents send their children to school for an education. But education begins very early in the child's life and is dependent on parental involvement. Parents who teach their children the rudiments before they even get to school, and who remain involved after they enter school, and expose their children to educational opportunities separate from school, and who, above all, read to their children until they can read themselves, these parents will find that their children are advanced in their school work and generally leaders among their peers.

Unfortunately, all too often, parents prefer to leave the educating to the schools and blame the system when their children fail to thrive. By placing a priority on education, and less emphasis on the extracurricular activities, parents have the biggest influence on the child's desire to learn.

Many times, the child is chauffeured from dance lessons to gymnastics to Brownies to cheerleading, or to karate, little league, mini-football, cub scouts, etc. Homework is done in the car on the way to an activity, or on the bus in the morning. Little or no time is factored in for interaction between parent and child other than the drive-time.

Sukanya Roy didn't win the National Spelling Bee because she attends Abington SD. She did it because her parents are encouraging her to excel in whatever she attempts. She studied hard, overcame prior defeat, and kept at it. Now it's entirely possible that Su received extra attention from her teachers, leading people to believe that her school district is superior. But teachers, being human, will tend to spend time on those students who are eager to learn. But I'd guess that Sukanya would have won that bee no matter which school she attended.

Some of my children graduated from the Scranton SD and some from Wyoming Valley West. They are all well-educated, intelligent and successful in their lives. They did well in school because that's what we expected of them. They were permitted one extracurricular activity during the school year, and independent reading was a given. You'll get out of your child what you are willing to put in.

jimazee · 06-17-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Yuk

I am of the opinion that the quality of teaching is no better in Clarks Summit than it is in Scranton, Pittston, Wilkes-Barre, Kingston, etc etc etc.

Also, it seems that many people in this area "grade" the schools by how many or how little "brown" people may attend those schools.....

I don't think anyone suggested that the teachers are better in Abington Heights or that student or teacher 'color' had anything to do with it.

You introduced both of these ideas.

Lehigh Valley Native · 06-17-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Yuk

This is a fallacy....the schools are not "better" in Clarks Summit, Dallas, Mtn Top, etc, its just that the test scores are skewed higher in those areas, because those are the schools where you have the children of doctors and other high-income professionals, so of course the test scores will be higher. I am of the opinion that the quality of teaching is no better in Clarks Summit than it is in Scranton, Pittston, Wilkes-Barre, Kingston, etc etc etc.

Also, it seems that many people in this area "grade" the schools by how many or how little "brown" people may attend those schools.....

It's not really a fallacy. Although you are correct, quality teachers can be found at any school district, the difference is that the most important factor in a child's success in school are the parents.

In a school filled with children of successful parents, the children generally are more inclined towards putting an emphasis on academic studies. This creates a halo effect on the rest of the student population and school dynamics. The same can be said about schools where athletics are the priority.

The other important point, given the way our schools are funded, districts that are in areas with successful families have more funds to spend on schools. The schools have the financial means to provide a well rounded school experience in pleasant environments. Which all leads to children having less hurdles on the path of academic achievement.

As to the "brown" comment. I believe the National Spelling Bee champion is brown, although I don't believe this is racial segment you are referring to.

Allentown Central Catholic has a fair share of latinos in the student population. The school is consistently ranked as one of the best high schools in Pennsylvania, scoring higher than more expensive and prestigious private schools. It has been my experience that latinos generally regard education as a very important part of life.

westcoast30 · 06-17-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theatergypsy

Some of my children graduated from the Scranton SD and some from Wyoming Valley West. They are all well-educated, intelligent and successful in their lives. They did well in school because that's what we expected of them. They were permitted one extracurricular activity during the school year, and independent reading was a given. You'll get out of your child what you are willing to put in.

That's good. But many parents in that district simply don't care. There's a cultural difference between say Abington Heights and Scranton schools. It was the same when I graduated in 1998. The demographics of the Abington area are people who have attained high educational achievement. This has a strong correlation with the educational achievement and drive of their children. So, you have educated parents influencing their children. This in effect pressures Abington Hts. to meet certain expectations of the demands of the community and that is good quality education. Now of course there are setbacks such as strong union influence and some mediocre teachers. That exists everywhere. Scranton may not have the same pressure or demand from the community, so it is possible that Abington has slightly higher standards.

Now, suppose Abington and Scranton are EQUAL in terms of quality or "lack of quality" education. Which school has an advantage even though they're equal? It is most likely Abington. Not because of the school, but because of the community (culture and demographics). This can positively impact a student coming from a family that doesn't value education much if he/she lives in a community and is surrounded by peers who value education. That same students can slip through the cracks more-so at a school like Scranton because the city culture may not value education as much as the Abington community. You can find evidence of this anywhere, including Southern Cali.

Some people on here claim racial bias. What huge BS! I hate the race labeling but let's suppose you have a low-income African American student living in Scranton with a family who doesn't really value education. Let's also suppose his parents are divorced and one lives in Clarks Summit. He has a choice of schools-- which school do you think he'll succeed more in? Abington or Scranton? Think about the community, culture, demographics, etc. This is WHY school choice is very important, but that's a whole different topic