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Northeastern Pennsylvania relocation, base moving decisions on job market, career opportunities, recent college grads, ideal communities, affordable cost of living, keep open mind when moving
1. Come on YAC. All forums need an administrator at times but shouldn't policing of threads be based on profanity or other serious public offense? There is nothing wrong with debate even when it leads to some level of personal attacks AS LONG AS they remain relatively mild and civil. Otherwise, as Yac said, take it to the DM.
2. Everyone is right........to some degree. I agree with WelovPA's critique of SWB. Although I admire SWB's conviction and enthusiasm, he is very young and speaks with no life lessons to back it up. Lessons learned over time and in places outside of the valley. However, not everything he says is bull. I agree when SWB describes WeLuvPA as short sighted but a better word would be narrow minded. It’s a common trait I observe in many back there. Its this or its that and that is why my life sucks or this place sucks.
If you two don’t like each other then don’t read the threads. Debates are great until you get emotional. Then you loose ALL credibility and respect from others. BOTH OF YOU.
3. Quote "Anyways, home is where your heart is. Wherever you and yours end up making your house, you'll find happiness...even if the Philharmonic winds up being a twenty minute commute. It's the people you love, not the town you live in that determine, ultimately, the quality of your life. That's what I think."
My sediments exactly. I have always known I will eventually move back to NEPA and its solely because that is where family and friends are and I like 4 seasons. Let's face it, compared to many places I've lived, its a sh**hole.
4. SWB, my advice to you is that the smarter recent college grad will base his relocation decision on career opportunity and go where the most challenging and/or lucrative job offer takes him. Picking your ideal community comes in your 30s or 40s once hard work has afforded you an opportunity to choose. Not your 20s. Otherwise, YOU are being narrow-minded and cheating yourself of what the rest of the world has to offer. I ALWAYS advise people (i.e. nephews etc.) to experience life outside NEPA for at least some time. Worst case, you move back more appreciative and OPEN-minded.
"Narrow minded" "A common trait, back there" Read the other threads I have never said that this place or area sucks. I love it here in NEPA and I do like Scranton. If you had to go thru what I do dealing with and fighting the city on many issues you would be pissed to. I hate when certain people want the city to continue to spend for hopes of a new downtown when the city is in $400,000,000 of long term debt. I hate when soemone tells me or other residents that they should not complain about a 25% tax increase with two more coming to a total of 93.4% in 3 years when they don't pay taxes at all. You think that if you live outside the area it opens your mind? The first 12 years of my life where spent living at the Jersey shore in a small fishing town and well in the last 16 years I have lived in The Middle East, Europe, The Carribbean and UT, CO and NJ. I have worked on million dollar yachts as a Captain and sailed boats across the Bahamas alone. I have been a ski instructor, mutual fund broker, Yacht Broker, USCG licensed Capt.(current), Printing & ad company executive and a carpenter and finally a my neighborhood leader. I have been around and experience much in my life so its not narrow mindedness as much as its the reality of what the city and its admin has done and is doing to the residents. SWB pushes these frivilious Scranton projects to everyone while he lives Pittston and tells us what to do, period. I don't like it. Olive Branch accepted but I think that you need to read more of the threads and see what I am really about before you pass any kind of judgement on my scope of intelligence or forsight. I am here to make this a better city for those that already live here, not those that might come. I'm out!
I'm going to refrain from commenting too much since I've already received a warning by a moderator for our arguments, but I'm now going to be spending most of my time focusing on narrowing down my list of potential new communities that I have assembled as a poll on the General U.S. forum. I'm going to wean myself off of the NEPA sub-forum quite quickly; expect no more photo tours or feedback of any shape or form regarding Scranton. The old saying goes "If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen," and I couldn't agree more.
I'm admitting defeat. The better man (men in this case) won. I have no business trying to attract new residents to Scranton when I'm not a city taxpayer. What right do I have to care about the future of an ailing city when I'm only 20, right? It's all clear to me now. If you can't beat 'em, then leave 'em.
Ironically my pal Veronica (KittensPurr) is moving from my top contender at this point in time (Boston) to NEPA as I ponder moving to Beantown. It would make me very happy to try to help Scranton to recover, but if the city's residents don't want any outside investment or advice, then by all means they shouldn't have help forced upon them. Scranton has weathered ups and downs in its past just fine; I'm sure it will survive the current financial mess as well.
Dan, I'll leave you with some parting words of advice "Don't always be so confrontational. Not everyone is out to get you." Tsedeski made some excellent third-party observations here, and instead of letting them sink in (as I have) you once again had to berate him and nitpick at me (which I can't respond to for fear of being banned from this forum, so for all intensive purposes you're picking on someone who can't defend themselves right now).
I'm owning up to my flaws at this point in time. As a suburbanite at age twenty, I have no real life experiences to substantiate my ideas. You people have no idea the great ideas I currently possess in my mind that I'm not writing down for fear of further bickering, but I'll be disclosing them when (and if) I return to NEPA in my 30s. I come off as being VERY condascending, and I apologize for it; it has more to do with my flippant writing style than my true character.
Dan, why is it that you think you're infallible? You continually contradict yourself. You and I BOTH agree that the city needs to put a cork in its bleeding of residents and needs to attract new residents in order to rebuild its tax base and return itself to fiscal solvency. Nevertheless you fail to realize that by magnifying the city's problems while turning a blind eye to its benefits is only going to make matters worse; if it weren't for me trying to point out the assets that Scranton has that makes it a great city to raise a family in people would probably all run away screaming to Clarks Summit when they pondered moving to NEPA. I've helped at least one upper-middle-class couple (ScrantonVideoProductions) find their dream home in the city, and even if that's all I have to show for my 15 months or so of pro-Scranton cheerleading on this forum, then I'd consider my run here to be a job well done. How many people have you lured into the city with your flattering comments?
One final word of advice, Dan "You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar." If you want to "tell things like they are" and be the "realist" that you claim to be, then speak the TRUTH about Scranton---the city's finances are a mess, but there are still many great reasons to live here (which you always find a way to negate whenever I list them). I've continually said that I'd be willing to pay a premium to live on a tree-lined street with sidewalks and historic homes with large front porches and friendly neighborhoods where my kids could walk to school and ride their bikes; you won't find that here in the incessant rat-race of suburbia. Dan, you're not helping to increase this city's middle-class tax base one bit by allowing the city's flaws to overshadow its benefits. I've been crying like a blubbering baby the past few days as I realize that in 2009 I'll be breaking my ties to this area; obviously this city has some good things going for it if I'm not just high-tailing it out of here like a bat out of hell. Will the transplants flooding into Monroe and Pike Counties ever move into Scranton to help rebuild its tax base? These odds would be much greater if they weren't constantly subjected to non-stop bickering about a 3.4% city wage tax, 97.6% city tax increase, potholes, flooding, Daron Northeast, Doherty Debt, yada, yada, yada. I wasn't in any way, shape, or form deceiving people by telling them about how much potential Scranton has to truly become something great in the upcoming years.
ScrantonVideoProductions flattered me when I saw him a few weeks ago while walking through the Hill Section with my boyfriend to compare and contrast our tastes in architecture. He said that I was the main motivating factor why he and his wife had purchased their home in the city, and he's very happy with how he sees the city progressing NOT regressing. I certainly hope someone else with a love for the city will step up to fill my gaping void once I stop posting on the NEPA sub-forum. If not, then you're all screwed, more or less, if you're going to rely on people like WeLuvPA to attract new residents to the city. As much as I admire Dan for his devotion to the people of his neighborhood, he is utterly CLUELESS to the amount of damage he has done to his own city's reputation towards new residents on this forum, and if he's allowed to go unchecked in the future when I'm gone as being the "goodwill ambassador" of the city, then God help you all! If you want to rebuild the city's tax base, Dan, then you don't go up to the top of West Mountain and shout out "WAGE TAXXXX!!! SEWER FEESSSS!!! DOHERTY DEBT!!!! DARON NORTHEASSSTTTT" You try to offset the city's negatives as much as you possibly can with its positive attributes.
Why is it such a hard concept for you people to grasp that you're all shooting yourselves in the foot by condemning the city more than you promote it?
Dude, I should've said something earlier.
The phrase is, "..., for all intents and purposes."
Not 'intensive purposes', although just about everything you've put out lately is pretty intense.
Anyway...
If you walk out on all your fellow posters here simply because you were put in your place, that says more about you than anything you could possibly write or take pictures of.
You remind me a little of John Denver. He was singer, a little before your time. For a long while, people loved to listen to him sing. They'd snap up every ticket to every concert, buy all the albums, jump into the fads he was exploring (remember "EST", people?) and even make his catchphrase a national craze. ("Far Out!")
Problem was, he got caught up in his own hype. He assumed that those who paid to hear him sing would also like to hear him speak. He began offering his opinions on everything from World Hunger to religion. In the beginning, people were polite about it. Thus encouraged, he became preachy and stern, and a little pushy. His music suffered for the additional distractions, and his popularity faded. A half-dozen comebacks never brought him anywhere near to his 70's fame. The ten year anniversary of his fatal plane crash just came and went and nobody noticed...an unthinkable scenario thirty years ago.
My point (and I do have one) is simply this. You've made your name on your keen eye for detail and your willingness to show us all what you see through the lens. If you could manage to keep your political and personal leanings apart from that, aside from the occasional input...I'm sure you'd be every bit as popular as ever. What's wrong here, mostly, is your use of your contributions as a weapon. You're threatening the sub-forum with your departure because you didn't like what somebody said about something you said that they didn't like. It's nonsense when you read it in plain english, isn't it?
If you choose to stand on a soapbox, don't be surprised if you wind up making some bubbles. Be even less surprised if somebody pops a few of them.
Just my two cents. I'm sure I have some change coming from it. If you do move on, hey.
Thanks for everything. Good luck, God bless...and please close the door behind you. You're letting the flies out.
Boston? Yesterday was Pittsburgh and what was it the day before? Paul DROP IT. I'm growing ever so tired of your long winded rants. You talk about Janet Evans and her self inflating speeches from her seat, my god man. NO ONE CARES. Stop your photo tours, stop posting, but most of all stop your whining and crying no one wants to hear it. Just let it go. People that are going to spend alot of money on a house should and want to know what the HIDDEN costs and issues are before they make the biggest decision in their lives. You think that someone is going to buy a house based solely on your photo tour? You kidding yourself if you think that someone would spend $200,000+ of their money based on just the good points of a city? Parks and coffee shops or really nice buildings do not pay the mortgage at the end of the month and certainly do not lessen the financial burden of taxes or other monthly bills. I do not care if we have new residents right now, I do care about getting our spending in check. Again no one cares if you post, don't post, take pics, don't take pics, whatever your wrong and just like my 9yr old son when your wrong and you get called out on it you throw a fit. Boston, Pittsburgh, WB, Scranton, Minneapolis, ???????? Whats next? DROP IT!
I do not care if we have new residents right now, I do care about getting our spending in check.
I've been staying out of this ridiculous soap opera and watching from the sidelines, but I had to ask you about this statement. I'm sure you realize that attracting new residents to Scranton would help to lessen our tax burden, right?
Boston? Yesterday was Pittsburgh and what was it the day before? Paul DROP IT. I'm growing ever so tired of your long winded rants. You talk about Janet Evans and her self inflating speeches from her seat, my god man. NO ONE CARES. Stop your photo tours, stop posting, but most of all stop your whining and crying no one wants to hear it. Just let it go. People that are going to spend alot of money on a house should and want to know what the HIDDEN costs and issues are before they make the biggest decision in their lives. You think that someone is going to buy a house based solely on your photo tour? You kidding yourself if you think that someone would spend $200,000+ of their money based on just the good points of a city? Parks and coffee shops or really nice buildings do not pay the mortgage at the end of the month and certainly do not lessen the financial burden of taxes or other monthly bills. I do not care if we have new residents right now, I do care about getting our spending in check. Again no one cares if you post, don't post, take pics, don't take pics, whatever your wrong and just like my 9yr old son when your wrong and you get called out on it you throw a fit. Boston, Pittsburgh, WB, Scranton, Minneapolis, ???????? Whats next? DROP IT!
Yes, Boston and Pittsburgh are amongst the roughly ONE DOZEN communities I'm now considering relocating to. I learned my lesson of "putting all of my eggs in one basket" in regards to hinging my entire future around the Electric City, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. This is why I'm considering not only Boston and Pittsburgh, but also Providence, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Chicago as well, amongst a few others.
Contrary to what you also claim, the differences in tax rates amongst all of these cities is going to be merely a MINOR factor in my relocation decision, and I'm going to be a bloody accountant for crying out loud. Boston seems to be the most expensive city by far out of those I've listed, and Pittsburgh seems to be the least-expensive. Does that mean I'll automatically rule Boston out in favor of Pittsburgh if it costs me an extra $5,000-$10,000 per year to live there in terms of property taxes, insurance costs, etc.? Of course not. MOST Americans don't look purely at tax rates and numbers when they ponder moving to a new city. They DO look at those things, but things such as quality-of-life, quality of public schools, crime rates, job availability, climate, air quality, etc. ALL take precedence over which city has a higher or lower wage or sales tax. Dan, for all intensive purposes you seem to be the only one hellbent on caring about Scranton's taxes. Dunmore likewise has a wage tax, but that didn't deter New2PA from moving into her new home based upon the OTHER factors she considered. Property taxes in North Jersey are skyrocketing, yet the population there continues to grow quickly.
What's the difference between me and you, Dan? I see taxes as a necessary evil. I realize that the more I pay, the more I'm likely to get back out of them in terms of better police protection while I run, better schools for my future children, dependable snow plowing, curbside recycling collection, adequate fire protection, etc. Where I live now our property taxes are through the roof, but that is largely due to the school district, which eats up roughly 75% of that. Our township no longer has residential property taxes levied upon homeowners, but you can tell they are hurting for money now---they eliminated curbside recycling, garbage collection is often late, snow plowing is awful, and we can't afford enough police to keep pace with our growth and/or to direct traffic during rush-hour. I'd rather pay a bit more to get more out of my community; if you want to be a "taxpayers' advocate" or whatever by pushing for lower and lower taxes in Scranton, then be prepared to sacrifice municipal services for it. Be prepared to see fewer cops on the streets, fewer DPW workers, fewer fire fighters, etc. I have a feeling that if a new mayor came into office and reduced taxes by cutting city services the same people who approach the podium every week whining about tax rates would then be whining about THAT as well; you can't have it both ways.
I say this as during my research I've found that the most expensive, highest-taxed places also rank very highly in terms of quality-of-life. Whether you like expensive NJ or not, its crime rate overall is very low, it has the highest median household income in the country, it has some of the best public schools, and from what I've heard other municipal services are top-notch. My partner and I care more about quality-of-life than we do about squawking over a 1% difference in the sales tax between two cities or about a 1.5% difference in a wage tax amongst two different communities. If the return on investment (ROI) of paying marginally higher taxes results in a better quality-of-life, then I'm not opposed to it. Just because you're in the "doomer" club who doesn't see how far your own city has progressed over the past few years (and will continue to progress) while investing in itself doesn't mean that everyone else is likewise blind. I can remember visiting Scranton a decade ago vs. visiting the city today. I see more police patrols today. I see less boarded-up buildings downtown. I see happier people in city parks. I see more out-of-state people purchasing Scranton homes in the property transfers. I've watched as average home values in the city rose by 1/3 in the past few years. The word is getting out that Scranton has been investing in itself, and now upcoming private investments will follow. I'm a firm believer that you need to "spend some money to make some money" in terms of putting forth public investment to have it matched with private investment.
Dan, you can call me all of the childish names you want; it only goes to prove that you're very immature yourself for being a 30-something male spending all of your waking hours yelling at and making fun of someone just over half your age. You remind me very much of a spoiled child who throws tantrums YOURSELF when everyone doesn't agree with YOU. If someone starts to ponder Scranton as a relocation destination, you freak out all the time and try to change their minds with all of these replies about how much the city is sinking like the "Titanic."
I'll say this once more since NOBODY seems to freakin' understand it: "You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar." One of my main criteria when selecting a new hometown is likewise to find one with at least SOME civic pride, which I don't see in Scranton, which is why I'm moving on. People like to move to a community where their decision is reinforced by residents who relate their positive experiences about it. As I said before Pittsburghers seem to have civic pride dripping out of every pore, which makes it attractive to me. However, that is far from being the only criteria that I'm considering (it certainly does help Pittsburgh's case though for me to see so many well-educated people thriving there and furthering its renaissance; you dont' see that in Scranton). If potential newcomers think, by and large, that Scrantonians have hope for a better tomorrow, then they may be willing to invest in that optimism. Sadly this isn't the case. CHS89 still can't produce to me just where the hell all of the city's (non-mayoral-appointed) cheerleaders are besides myself. He tried showing me his own quotes, but if he considers what he typed to be enough enthusiasm to overshadow what you rant and rave about in order to lure new residents into Scranton to increase its tax-base, then it just isn't enough.
Since you continually complain about not being able to read anything lengthy (perhaps its beyond your realm of comprehension to do so), I'll make this my last paragraph. Are you more personally going to be inclined to move to a city where you think existing residents are happy and optimistic about a renaissance or depressed and pessimistic about the city collapsing into a heap? I can't think of anyone who would choose the latter.
It's time for me to move on and find an area where short-sighted pessimists don't outnumber the pro-renaissance optimists. The simple fact that some people told me in the past they want Scranton to stay "as is" tells me we have issues; the city is destined for failure if you don't at least fix the problem of the declining tax base, which is why I was so vocal on this forum to drum up support for it. Yes, I have indeed failed. I hope when the influx of newcomers from NY/NJ creeps up I-380 into Lackawanna County due to the Pocono spillover in the next decade you're all prepared to do all of the pro-city cheerleading you can possibly muster to steer those transplants into the city proper or else you're going to lose even more of the county's open space to sprawl spawned by people being turned-off by the city due to all of the animosity.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 10-19-2007 at 07:16 AM..
Reason: Typo
Phillies yes I do understand that attracting new residents will help to lower the burden, but if we do not get the current level of speding stopped RIGHT NOW then it won't matter how many people move here. Currently our spending is out of control and our numbers of houses for sale are climbing. No matter how much cheerleading that Paul thinks he does or how little or much influence he think actaully thinks this site has the numbers are clear. People want to move here because they think that its affordable, I will not sugar coat this city with parks and coffee shops and doggie boutiques. What I have to say applies more to a family looking to purchasing their HOME then any park or shop you speak of. Thats the reality of spending the largest chunk of money that most will ever in their lifetime. I support all my local business and I support the residents that live here. BUT I WILL NOT COVER THIS WITH HONEY LIKE YOU DO, essentially you are lying to people by keeping this stuff from them. Like buying a house, you have to fully disclose the problems of the house before you allow it to be purchased otherwise the buyers can sue you.
The multi-list and the number of homes for sale in Scranton just keeps growing.
311 Single Homes for sale 214 Multi-Family Homes for sale
525 Total
How many other homes are there with signs out front "For Sale By Owner"?
How do you think a another 25% property tax increase from the city this year will effect these numbers? I think that will definitely climb higher.
When and only when we get this spending under control then we can concentrate on bringing new residents in. Just because Paul says that he would be willing to pay more for this and that does and probably is so far from what others are willing to pay. My point is that its easy to say that you won't mind paying those taxes when you don't have to! Paul does not even work nor is he guarrenteed a job or a salary after school. They are unrealistic statements that do not apply. They are just his hypothetical dreams. He then likes to say that we should be ok with paying them because he is. The SFD and the SPD have had no contracts and their numbers have been cut down. I ask what are the services that we receive for the past and future increases that we are going to receive right now? Paul you have no idea, Why? Because you do not have to pay for any of this and yet your soap box is pretty high. No matter how much you cheer, you just do not have to deal with the realities of living in or paying for Scranton taxes. DROP IT ONCE AGAIN. Do not refer to me in your posts, stop pushing, stop whining let it go. Your partner and I? Come on Paul your 20 and you have a boyfriend thats new right now. When you guys have started to build a life together and live together then you have a partner right now your dating so drop that crap as well. YOU have no family and no joint accounts or a joint living space, its a boyfriend not a partner and you still live at home. This is a grown up world with grown up costs that require a grown job and work ethic to make ends meet. Do you have any idea what it takes in this city and this world to make the ends meet my friend? I doubt it! Sure you have good ideas but my god why the need to shove them down others throats. Why would CHS89 or yourself know who the cheerleaders are? No one knows who either of you are. I get stopped 5 times a day by residents no matter where I go with their opinions of the state of our city, they are telling what they think. I don't care about your statistics or net numbers, they really do not apply in the real world at the residential level, sure they are indicators but when it comes down to it they do not apply to those of us that rea here right now trying and working to get this city under control. I AM NOT SAYING IT AGAIN NOW DROP IT! NO MORE LONG WINDED CRAP AND STOP SPEWING OTHERS NUMBERS AND QUOTING OTHER SITES DROP IT.
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If you want to rebuild the city's tax base, Dan, then you don't go up to the top of West Mountain and shout out "WAGE TAXXXX!!! SEWER FEESSSS!!! DOHERTY DEBT!!!! DARON NORTHEASSSTTTT" You try to offset the city's negatives as much as you possibly can with its positive attributes. 
