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For heavens sake! I would wager a guess that the people in my area of the country, piedmont North Carolina, have had it as hard with the out-sourcing of the furniture / textile industries. These are people who worked for the same company, some of them for 20-30-40 years, who came to work one day only to be told their jobs were going off-shore. Alot went back to school and learned another trade, some retired, others moved - what else can one do? No, the closings are not the fault of the workers - what they do afterward, however, with the programs made available to them as "displaced workers" is. I was raised in NEPA by "working-class people" and have experienced the effects of a lay-off and I have advised displaced workers. Children coming to school dirty and poorly dressed "in rags"- that assuredly is not from industrial decline alone - those "troubles" were there long before the lay-off. Obviously, I do not know any of you but we all, every one of us, have a recourse against those in public office that we do not approve of - VOTE! If y'all believe the powers that be are screwing up Scranton, get out and do something constructive about it and change it. Get active. Get involved. Granted, people who live in Scranton are the ones who are directly affected by tax increases, etc., but it is ludicrous to think it doesn't affect the out-lying areas in both good and not-so-good ways. This is my opinion - I am not interested in a debate. I am old and rigid. Y'all be sweet ;-D
Last edited by mm_mary73; 02-16-2007 at 07:15 PM..
As someone who will be moving to the area in a few months, it has been interesting to read the recent exchanges here. The only thing I can say is that EVERYONES personal situation and experiences affects their views and outlooks on things and so things that are a big isssue for some don't have the same impact on others. Instead of attacking each other personally, maybe you can all explain where you are coming from. For instance, with the tax increase issue it is very easy to see how it is a huge problem for someone on a fixed income, but not as much of a problem for someone at the beginning of a career where salary increases are expected. Obviously it would be nice for everyone to be happy. Unfortunately in the real world that is rarely possible. It is much easier to see other peoples points of view though if people would explain where they are coming from rather than posting personal attacks about others.
For heavens sake! I would wager a guess that the people in my area of the country, piedmont North Carolina, have had it as hard with the out-sourcing of the furniture / textile industries. These are people who worked for the same company, some of them for 20-30-40 years, who came to work one day only to be told their jobs were going off-shore. Alot went back to school and learned another trade, some retired, others moved - what else can one do? No, the closings are not the fault of the workers - what they do afterward, however, with the programs made available to them as "displaced workers" is. I was raised in NEPA by "working-class people" and have experienced the effects of a lay-off and I have advised displaced workers. Children coming to school dirty and poorly dressed "in rags"- that assuredly is not from industrial decline alone - those "troubles" were there long before the lay-off. Obviously, I do not know any of you but we all, every one of us, have a recourse against those in public office that we do not approve of - VOTE! If y'all believe the powers that be are screwing up Scranton, get out and do something constructive about it and change it. Get active. Get involved. Granted, people who live in Scranton are the ones who are directly affected by tax increases, etc., but it is ludicrous to think it doesn't affect the out-lying areas in both good and not-so-good ways. This is my opinion - I am not interested in a debate. I am old and rigid. Y'all be sweet ;-D
BRAVO...agree!
I am a PREVIOUS tax payer of scranton....am I getting shot, cheerleading for scranton too????
For heavens sake! I would wager a guess that the people in my area of the country, piedmont North Carolina, have had it as hard with the out-sourcing of the furniture / textile industries. These are people who worked for the same company, some of them for 20-30-40 years, who came to work one day only to be told their jobs were going off-shore. Alot went back to school and learned another trade, some retired, others moved - what else can one do? No, the closings are not the fault of the workers - what they do afterward, however, with the programs made available to them as "displaced workers" is. I was raised in NEPA by "working-class people" and have experienced the effects of a lay-off and I have advised displaced workers. Children coming to school dirty and poorly dressed "in rags"- that assuredly is not from industrial decline alone - those "troubles" were there long before the lay-off. Obviously, I do not know any of you but we all, every one of us, have a recourse against those in public office that we do not approve of - VOTE! If y'all believe the powers that be are screwing up Scranton, get out and do something constructive about it and change it. Get active. Get involved. Granted, people who live in Scranton are the ones who are directly affected by tax increases, etc., but it is ludicrous to think it doesn't affect the out-lying areas in both good and not-so-good ways. This is my opinion - I am not interested in a debate. I am old and rigid. Y'all be sweet ;-D
Actually, "WeLuvPA" should read your wonderful reply, as it basically sums up all I had wanted to say in that windbag four-part reply of mine in a nice, concise manner! I don't know where some of you people get off thinking I'm "snobby" or "priviledged." Don't judge me just because I have an affinity for the English language. My sister and I lived for a while with our parents in a TRAILER PARK of all places while my dad worked the night shift at a gas station and my mother climbed the ranks in retail management. Thanks to their own dilligence, we were your typical "rags to riches" type of story. My father completed his Bachelor's Degree and landed a job at a small local company that helped to propel him into his former high-paying position at IBM. My mother completed her degree and remained as a store manager for a local chain drug store for a number of years before changing career paths to find a healthier balance between the workplace and family life. They've both faced financial adversity, but neither one ever blamed others for their problems, much less the city. Thanks to their own ambition, they managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and fixed their own problems without relying on the city to bail them out. I'm just so sick and tired of the "woe is me" attitude that most less-fortunate people in Scranton have NEEDLESSLY! If life isn't turning out the way you had hoped it would have, then stop, reflect, and make some alterations, as most people would do in a similar situation!
By the way, WeLuvPA, you claim that I need to "move out into the real world and move out from my parents' roof." Well, as of right now, I worked nearly full-time last year at Lowe's while attending school full-time and earned around $15,000. With a car insurance payment of $140/month, mounting student loan debt, book/supplies fees of around $1,000 per year, gasoline expenditures of around $90/month, etc., there quite simply would not be enough left over for me to afford a rental fee of $400/month for a 1-bedroom apartment along with utilitites, taxes, etc. You claimed that you were already long moved out at age 20 and paying your own way through college with your own place without help from your parents---how? Do you mean to tell me you worked 80 hours per week while attending school full-time? Considering there are 168 hours per week, that leaves 88 hours left after your 80-hour work week. Of those 88 hours, let's assume that you have a 15-credit courseload amounting to 15 hours of class time per week, leaving you with 73 hours remaining. Assuming you were to get a healthy rest of at least seven hours every night, that leaves you with 24 hours left. When you factor in commuting times, meals, studying, family commitments, spiritual involvement, etc., just how did you manage to pull that off? I'm still confused. Was the cost-of-living in relation to real wages lower back then?
On a final note, I'm not happy with the rather bitter descent into the gnashing of teeth that this thread has started to slip into, so I'll be refraining from future contributions to this thread. There's an obvious sense of jealousy and/or class envy that runs rampant throughout this city and the mindset of "the rich ******* are sticking it to the man again" is starting to get old. While I worked hard to fully purchase my first car, a Ford Contour, in order to commute back and forth to my high school, work, committee meetings, etc., I realized that the student parking lots of my upper-middle-class alma mater of Pittston Area were littered with all sorts of glitzy "toys" that had been given to some of my peers on their 16th birthdays by their well-to-do parents, but did that spark the green-eyed monster within me? Not at all. In fact, I was happy to see that so many other people in my community were living life without financial hardships.
I hate to say this, but the city has taken on an image of "The Great Divide." Those who voted for DiBileo in the last mayoral race were from the "working class" and generally didn't really "like" the guy's ideas; they just resented Mayor Doherty because, to them, this man was an elitist snob who had no business governing a blue-collar town and trying to turn it into a high-paying white-collar one with the "gay/latte/fruity" developments he proposed. The city is split 50/50 amongst those who want the city to catch up to the rest of the Northeast in terms of arts, culture, etc. and those who want us to "stick to our heritage." Why can't a healthy compromise be formulated between these two polar opposites? Our city needs its working-class, but it also needs a stronger CREATIVE CLASS, whether or not some of you green-eyed monsters can see that or not. What harm has arisen from Poochie, Northern Lights, New Laundry, Lavish, Outrageous, AFA Gallery, etc. anyways? If you can't afford these places, then don't patronize them, as I do. Just because I can't afford to sip lattes while window-shopping at the latest Florentine fashion trends before retiring to my TriBeCa-styled loft doesn't mean that I should begrudge those who can. Scrantonians, stop with your pettiness, your class envy, your avarice, and your "if I can't afford nice things, then why should anyone?" attitudes! Why can't you just follow my lead and feel happy to know that the people who are patronizing these places are living comfortably in our fair city? Hopefully, someday I will be able to afford the lifestyle I just mentioned, but if I can't, I won't be callous as a result.
I bartended and had 3 roommates. Because you can't pull it off no one can?
Stop going back and forth with the Dibileo crowd and the mayor crowd. This is not about the mayor and his "gay/latte/fruity" developments he proposed" its about how much does it have to cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I have never said that I was against progress or creative outlets in Scranton but at what cost?????? No matter what you say when Mayor Doherty came into office he took control of a surplus budget of upwards of $5 mil approx. 5 years later we have $300,000,000 long term debt and a 25% tax increase. Your the CPA please tell me where 300mil went to in 5yrs???????It never has been about the vision or progression it has always been about how much is it going to cost us. When you own property and pay taxes you will understand what those words mean "How much is it going to cost me?". I am no going to argue the mayors politics with you I just am concerned with how much it will cost us to change our city and if it doesn't work like we hope how much will we lose? We already have to pay off a 5 yr old bill for $300,000,000. We cannot afford much more right now thank you.
SWB I still think you are lumping any legitimate criticism together and giving it a label, whether it's negativity, self-pity, or envy. And I still say your bootstrap prescription is failing to face the real problems that have beset Scranton and is a version of blaming the victim.
To the poster from North Carolina, Forbes Magazine just ranked Raleigh as the best U.S. city for getting a job, in terms of unemployment, job growth, income growth, median household income, and cost of living.
Perhaps the Piedmont region is worse, but still I think you are ignoring economic conditions when you say that people in Scranton are to blame for their condition. You both sound like the wealthy people of Flint, Michigan in Roger and Me, when they just told people to be creative and stop sitting around after GM closed down its factories.
SWB I still think you are lumping any legitimate criticism together and giving it a label, whether it's negativity, self-pity, or envy. And I still say your bootstrap prescription is failing to face the real problems that have beset Scranton and is a version of blaming the victim.
To the poster from North Carolina, Forbes Magazine just ranked Raleigh as the best U.S. city for getting a job, in terms of unemployment, job growth, income growth, median household income, and cost of living.
Perhaps the Piedmont region is worse, but still I think you are ignoring economic conditions when you say that people in Scranton are to blame for their condition. You both sound like the wealthy people of Flint, Michigan in Roger and Me, when they just told people to be creative and stop sitting around after GM closed down its factories.
Well bless your heart! I believe they ranked Raleigh (RTP) 4th. Your point?
PERSONAL INCOME PER CAPITA IN CONSTANT (2000) DOLLARS \1 2004
North Carolina $27,124 37th
Pennsylvania $30,928 18th
Source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.
See Table 662, Statistical Abstract of the United States, 2006.
Last Revised: February 01, 2006 at 07:59:19 AM
I am truly NOT interested in debating you or arguing with you about what you inferred from my (and others') post. I will say, however, if you are unhappy about where your local government is going, get involved and change it. Bye-bye now......
No, the closings are not the fault of the workers - what they do afterward, however, with the programs made available to them as "displaced workers" is.
The point is that if you live in Raleigh, you have better opportunities than if you live in Scranton. Individual effort, or lack thereof, can't explain the situation of people in Scranton. This may not be true for the Piedmont, as I said, but I just happened to see the story before reading your post. Boomtowns like this just aren't there in northeastern Pennsylvania.
I'm not surprised that per capita incomes are lower in the entire state of North Carolina than in Pennsylvania. After all Pennsylvania was one of the first areas in the country to industrialize, and at the beginning of the 20th century it was one of the most heavily capitalized steel producing areas in the world. Because of the Civil War and Jim Crow, meanwhile, the South has been the poorest area of the country since the end of slavery.
The point is the trend over the last 30 years. Even if you start at a high level, with negative job growth, people are going to have a hard time finding jobs. The trend in the South has been much better over that period than in the Northeast, and Scranton has been about as hard hit as they come, with its principal industry--anthracite coal--completely disappearing.
It's fine if you don't want to debate, but I don't think you should get cranky if someone contradicts you.
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I thought we are on the cheerleading thread???
Don't judge me just because I have an affinity for the English language. My sister and I lived for a while with our parents in a TRAILER PARK of all places while my dad worked the night shift at a gas station and my mother climbed the ranks in retail management. Thanks to their own dilligence, we were your typical "rags to riches" type of story. My father completed his Bachelor's Degree and landed a job at a small local company that helped to propel him into his former high-paying position at IBM. My mother completed her degree and remained as a store manager for a local chain drug store for a number of years before changing career paths to find a healthier balance between the workplace and family life. 
They've both faced financial adversity, but neither one ever blamed others for their problems, much less the city. Thanks to their own ambition, they managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and fixed their own problems without relying on the city to bail them out. I'm just so sick and tired of the "woe is me" attitude that most less-fortunate people in Scranton have NEEDLESSLY! If life isn't turning out the way you had hoped it would have, then stop, reflect, and make some alterations, as most people would do in a similar situation! 
