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I live in Vienna, too. Saturday was my big walking day -- walked with my wife and 3 y/o to the community center, then to Church Street and had a coffee along with a potty break, then to the library. We typically go on one adventure that size a weekend -- we'll certainly walk up to Octoberfest and the Halloween parade, for example, but being 3, staying up past 8pm can be a real adventure.
I live too far from Maple (0.75-1.25 miles) to get anything at the grocery stores -- perishables would probably go bad. That, and I've sworn off of Giant since discovering Wegman's and being disgusted at the bathrooms @ Giant.
I am passionate about this subject as well. I grew up in a typical suburb where I could not walk anywhere, and I absolutely hated it. When we were town hunting and chose Vienna, I ruled out any homes that were not within walking distance of Maple Avenue and nearby amenities. It took quite awhile, but we found the perfect house that is walking distance to parks, grocery stores, the bike path, the library, the community center, and other amenities.
This is the exact same reason why I ruffle so many feathers on this sub-forum. I, too, grew up in a suburban area that wasn't walkable to anywhere, had no sidewalks, and was located along a busy highway. It wasn't my cup of tea. Then I ended up moving to Reston, which was only marginally better with the walkability factor, and I've been "itching" to get into a denser place where I can be nearer to more amenities. The neighborhoods of North Arlington just far enough away from the "glitz" of the immediate Ballston/Rosslyn Corridor to not have horrendous pricing yet still close enough to be perhaps a 35-minute walk (or 10-minute bus ride) away are where I've now zeroed in on.
I know I've been harsh on Vienna in the past, but it does have some walkable elements to it that ought to be recognized. I was "spoiled" growing up near some of the historic "boroughs" in Pennsylania that were all literally like Bedford Falls from "It's a Wonderful Life" because most were planned prior to the advent of the automobile and/or were streetcar suburbs. When I see the congestion and strip malls along Maple Avenue in Vienna I just sort of feel myself deflating. Church Street is nice, but I wish it would be a few more blocks in length. I feel the same way about all the parking lots lining Broad Street in Falls Church.
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Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82
Ok I can see that then. I think Westover is a happy medium. You MUST go to the Lost Dog and the Beer Garden. I will admit one thing that I left out about convenience..the ART bus system is quite nice and surprisingly reliable.
Best of luck!
Thanks. I know I've been a pain in the backside on this sub-forum for a while now, but I have a feeling once I settle down in Arlington next year I'll find myself in a much better position in life. Right now I've had "city fever" for years and years and am still in the outer suburbs. It's just frustrating. Reston is a great place if you have children or enjoy the "town center" experience of RTC. Otherwise it's not really a "hip" place for early-20-somethings who can barely afford Ramen noodles.
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Originally Posted by claremarie
For a single person or couple who eats out a lot, sure. We had one of those thingies when we lived in Dupont Circle.
For a family with several children, not so much. Unless you like to play European and shop every day....
I have three teenage sons and the milk runs alone (12 gallons a week) would destroy the push-cart thingie pretty fast.
Agreed. However, given the fact that so many Arlington households (especially in the immediate Orange Line Corridor) are singles, I'd estimate a good chunk of those cars in the lots at the grocery stores are from single people buying "just a few items." Yes, this is a free country. People should be able to walk, bike, drive, or hovercraft to their destinations; however, this area's congestion woes won't improve if 99.9% choose to drive.
walkable means destinations, and it means a walkable path to them.
That the DESTINATION happens to be in a strip mall is neither here nor there.
The path has many criteria - some are basic safety and comfort. Some are aesthetic. I know I would walk further to a destination if I am walking past urban type shops than if I am past a strip mall. I would suggest that you would find enough people share that preference, that you will find more people actually walking where the streetscape has shops along it rather than a large parking lot in front of the shops, holding constant for residential density and number of destinations. Though of course there are things you could walk past that are worse than strip malls.
take a look at Shirlington, where the parking lots are BEHIND the shops. I think many people find that far more walkable, block for block, than say LRT in Annandale.
I agree...when people think walkability, they want vibrancy and people about...people-watching abilities...or socializing through it as well, if it is a smaller setting.
Even though the above is a rarity, at least its nice to have a road with parked cars on it, on the road you are walking along.
Something is unnerving about walking anywhere with speeding cars going by with no buffer between you and them...and quickly trying to bypass large parking lots with people quickly flying in and out of them. Even moreso when you have small children. While technically you COULD walk along them, who would really want to?
There's one thing missing, RR, and I didn't know it myself, since I am not from this area, but have in-laws who are from the area, and that's politics. Fairfax County had the mentality of NIMBYism for too many years, and there were those who remembered Tysons when it was farmland, and felt that the growth there was enough. Thus, they did not want to encourage any more growth by building roads. Expanding the Beltway wasn't on the radar, much less streamlining Route 7 and creating a live-work environment because in that era, NoVa was a suburb of DC, not an employment destination in its own right.
So, it's not enough that the planning office may have forecast something could happen in Tysons, or even Reston, much less the tech corridor as it would have fallen on deaf ears and been next to impossible to even try to implement. There were some who were opposed to Route 28 and Route 66 improvements, and were aghast at the Toll Road (not the Access Road) because it was encouraging development. The area nearly did not develop the economy that we have now as a result, but during subsequent political power changes, the anti-growth contingency was shown the door, or embraced the dawn of the new prosperity. That marked a change in political structure from one that pined for the "old days" when McLean had dirt roads, Tysons was farms, and suburbs were primarily an Arlington concern, and shifted the focus to creating the business-friendly environment that has diversified the economy of the area.
Burke has had growth problems, itself, because of lack of roads, especially when it was first built. It did not develop a commercial sector as Tysons did, so the road issues were mainly residential, and improvements to 123, the construction of the Fairfax County Parkway, and improvements to Burke Center Parkway did much to help alleviate the problems.
The region went on an anti-highway backlash after previous decades of construction that so stalled or obliterated projects that were projected to be of need in the future. That's why 95 was never completed through the District; why the Whitehurst was never joined to Spout Run Parkway in Arlington with another crossing; and why the Outer Beltway that was forecast by MNCPPC as early as the 1950s as being crucial to the region's progress going forward, were never developed. But, back in those days, the Beltway was underutilized, so people laughed at the mere concept of a second, Outer Beltway as being totally superflous. Fairfax did build most of its portion of the Outer Beltway as the Parkway, but it was to join Maryland highways at a new crossing. I curse the lack of planning every time I am stuck on Key Bridge, but I know it's not going to change anything, no matter how much one cries foul because a crossing near Three Sisters would never get built.
Part of this was NIMBYism and part of it was political, including interstate/district rivalries. Add to that the increased environmental activism that came about out of the 1960s, and you have a recipe for the clogged roadways that we now have. Smart growth that was designed with minimal impact to an environment was not yet the rage, nor were TODs, and preserved town center concepts. This is the era when the strip mall and housing development, and the shopping mall, were the wave of the future, not the old fashioned small towns that had existed before.
The 1980s-1990s brought on waves of prosperity and rapid expansion -- too rapid to outpace the planning/build cycle for infrastructure. Rather than turn away relocating companies, new businesses, and residential development sufficient to support those new needs, the region limped along as best it could until things started to change.
I think that it's too easy to dismiss the region's woes on selfish previous generations, since parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents who were in the area did have the foresight to plan, but there were socio-political reasons that framed the patterns of development with which we are now dealing. Sometimes it takes reaching a critical mass before things change, and congested traffic is one rallying point in that regard in this area that has solidified the entire metro area.
Now, few areas are going to be as diverse, interesting, or inviting for walkers as a dense urban environment like New York City in NoVa. It's all a matter of preference, but I do think that there are areas where someone can walk part of the time in this region, and that's not bad for a largely suburban environment that came of age in the era of the strip mall and expansive subdivision. As I see it, that's the reality as to why things progressed the way that they did in the region, not because there was a profound disinterest, but the reality of the seeds of growth had not fully taken hold in the mindset of the taxpayers in the region.
And, regarding taxes, that's a universal argument when you have property owners, not just in this area. Nobody wants increased property taxes, as that's not the sole determinant of use of projected improvements. Toll roads can be more effective in that regard, since it puts the burden on the user of the improvement, not a property owner who may ride their bicycle to work. The tax increases that get approved here are generally for schools and parks, since that has more of a tangible benefit in the local community, but that's not exclusive to this area, that's a universal self-interest with respect to municipal funding from real estate property taxes.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
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I think the reason most strip malls, such as the one Caladium references in her Sterling neighborhood, receive such a negative reputation for "walkability" is because they are generally oriented towards the motor vehicle first and pedestrians/cyclists second.
Wow, that's a rather egotistical reason. So, it's not about having an easy, safe, or attractive place to walk? It's not enough if a strip mall provides sidewalks to make it easy to walk through a parking lot (as many newer shopping areas do) or to make the walkways attractive with landscaped areas and planters... noooooo, what matters is being #1! If walkers aren't more important than cars, then a shopping plaza can't be considered a walkable destination????
It's a big world, can't there be room for both cars and walkers to be important?
I guess it all comes down to personal preference. Personally, I kind of like walking through parking lots. I deliberately park at the far end when I go to stores because I like walking through the lot, checking out the cars.
Also, a lot of times something interesting is going on in a parking lot, especially this time of year when the local high school kids are holding car washes, etc. to raise money for some school program.
Are parking lots really such bad places? To be honest, I kind of like 'em. If you live in an area with community spirit, a parking lot of a strip mall can become a gathering place. I just went to a 10K, and a parking lot was where the race began and ended (also were registration, food booths, and socializing were taking place). Parking lots are where you gather to watch fireworks, visit the blood mobile, wander through a car show, or wait for the 20 other people in a meet-up group who are meeting to go on a group hike on one of our nearby trails.
This is the exact same reason why I ruffle so many feathers on this sub-forum. I, too, grew up in a suburban area that wasn't walkable to anywhere, had no sidewalks, and was located along a busy highway. It wasn't my cup of tea. Then I ended up moving to Reston, which was only marginally better with the walkability factor, and I've been "itching" to get into a denser place where I can be nearer to more amenities. The neighborhoods of North Arlington just far enough away from the "glitz" of the immediate Ballston/Rosslyn Corridor to not have horrendous pricing yet still close enough to be perhaps a 35-minute walk (or 10-minute bus ride) away are where I've now zeroed in on.
I know I've been harsh on Vienna in the past, but it does have some walkable elements to it that ought to be recognized. I was "spoiled" growing up near some of the historic "boroughs" in Pennsylania that were all literally like Bedford Falls from "It's a Wonderful Life" because most were planned prior to the advent of the automobile and/or were streetcar suburbs. When I see the congestion and strip malls along Maple Avenue in Vienna I just sort of feel myself deflating. Church Street is nice, but I wish it would be a few more blocks in length. I feel the same way about all the parking lots lining Broad Street in Falls Church.
Thanks. I know I've been a pain in the backside on this sub-forum for a while now, but I have a feeling once I settle down in Arlington next year I'll find myself in a much better position in life. Right now I've had "city fever" for years and years and am still in the outer suburbs. It's just frustrating. Reston is a great place if you have children or enjoy the "town center" experience of RTC. Otherwise it's not really a "hip" place for early-20-somethings who can barely afford Ramen noodles.
OK, this explains it! I also grew up in the middle of nowhere - but I couldn't even walk to many other houses! Just farmland everywhere, cows and apple trees, more cows and more apple trees. We had to drive 20 miles just to get to the grocery store. Thus my obsession with Old Town and other "dense" urban-ish areas.
Funny how growing up I would have killed to be able to ride my bike 5 miles to a 7-11, and now I turn up my nose at Reston Town Center, which to be fair is quite walkable, but doesn't offer the activity, night life, urban-ness and charm of a place like Old Town. I guess it just annoys me that, in general, everything is so spread out and sort of monotonous in NOVA. I don't so much want to leave here though as I'd like to see some of the sprawl become denser and less cookie cutter. It seems like most people want that, and yet it doesn't happen.
It's all a matter of preference, but I do think that there are areas where someone can walk part of the time in this region, and that's not bad for a largely suburban environment that came of age in the era of the strip mall and expansive subdivision.
Many areas, in fact. As a person who walks almost everyday and likes variety in my routes, I can tell you there are all sorts of places in northern Virginia where I can take interesting walks and I still haven't walked all of them yet. I usually walk in Sterling, sometimes go to Reston, and sometimes go to Lansdowne. I choose those areas because, for one thing, I live in the area and walk with my girl friends who also live in the area, and for another because I enjoy walking in suburban neighborhoods. As bmwguy says, it's all a matter of preference.
Also, as a senior citizen who doesn't move that fast anymore I can assure you I do not walk anywhere that is treacherous. Yet I find new interesting places to walk all the time.
I really don't know what was going through the minds of people as they planned/developed Tysons Corner into the awful mess it is today.
The planning all took place in Ted Lerner's mind when he thought about ways to maximize profit, and no one got in his way. Lerner Enterprises, the owner of the property, had Tysons Corner mall built and didn't want low cost retail to locate nearby to undercut the business. The solution was to allow office buildings to locate around the perimeter. It generates good revenue and blocks out competitors. Design was based on profits, and nothing more.
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Originally Posted by RestonRunner86
The reason why I harp on so much about this issue is because I shouldn't have to. The fact that we are now spending billions of our tax dollars to turn Tysons Corner from an armpit into something that actually makes sense to anyone as a destination or neighborhood proves that we SHOULD be doing a better job in the present of planning for our future (but we're not, from what I see around me), which means our own children will have to pay billions of THEIR dollars to then go back and fix OUR messes.
So true. One of my favorites is Rockville town center. Some bozos in the 1970s built this horrid behemoth there that offered all of the beauty that sheer concrete walls can provide. The walls were so high and view-blocking that you would get lost in this block-sized structure. The answer -- tear it down and start over. So taxpayers footed the bill again to destroy this thing and begin anew. Amazing.
Why they can't do it right the first time considering the expense, I don't understand.
"Don't kids always want to see the other side of tracks at some point? Growing up in the suburbs, I always envied city kids who had the whole city at their disposal!"
I grew up in brooklyn (no surprise, I guess). As a teen I loved having the whole city at my disposal. I did want to leave NY - to see Boston, California, Paris. Not to see the suburbs (which I could get enough of by doing an excursion on the LIRR anyway)
"Personally, I kind of like walking through parking lots. I deliberately park at the far end when I go to stores because I like walking through the lot, checking out the cars. "
Thats interesting. I think you are in the minority though. I don't like walking through parking lots. I find looking at parked cars boring. I find the appearance unattractive - even if individual cars are attractive, the clutter of mismatched colors and styles is not. They are exposed to wind, sun and temp extremes (and usually lack tree cover to avoid having tree stuff fall on precious cars). I prefer looking in shop windows. I also find the human gatherings on sidewalks just as interesting as those in parking lots.
Of course if you live somewhere where the parking lot is the only place people gather, thats different.
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