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What Vienna has going for it are a lot of relatively grounded upper-middle class families, and all the things that accompany that--decent schools, stores, and family activities. There are several areas in NoVA that have similar things going for them, and all have houses priced around the same as those in Vienna.
Pretty much. If you are any sort of approximately upper-middle class family with kids, Vienna is going to score at least very well on all of the things that you are looking for in your new neighborhood. Unless, that is, you are part of the unrealistic upper-middle class that that expects clear sailing on major highways during rush hour. We don't have that, and neither does anyplace else. We do have pretty much all of the other bases covered to some rather significant degree or other.
There are indeed many areas in the general vicinity that score just as well as Vienna on many of these scales, and they are perfectly good places to live in also. What sets Vienna apart is first, all that goes with its actually being a town, and second, its easy access to everything: two Metro stations (30 minutes or so to downtown DC at any hour -- same to the Tech Corridor by car), 66 and 495, both Tysons Corner and Fair Oaks Mall, George Mason University, Fairfax and Fair Oaks Hospitals, Wolf Trap Center, both National and Dulles airports, the list goes on and on. You can even get an MRI for your cat or dog in Vienna. Toss in all the trees and creeks and pools and parks and rec centers and restaurants, and there just aren't that many places that are going to surpass it.
Seems to me North Arlington is comparable to cheaper (Marshall High) corners of Vienna, but not quite up to the Madison High part.
I'm not slamming Vienna! Of course, Vienna is nice. Of course, some people would favor Vienna over North Arlington because of differing commutes. But surely it is fair to say that North Arlington is generally regarded as more "posh." And the data supports it -- a few homes notwithstanding, take a broader look at 22181 (or whatever Vienna ZIP) compared to 22207. The information is here on City-Data. I don't live in North Arlington, so I'm not saying this with any personal bias.
In any event, I like Vienna and am not saying Vienna is bad. I was just commenting that you wouldn't normally hear someone lamenting that they had to "settle" on North Arlington over Vienna.
In the end, my view has always been that newcomers should choose where to live in NoVA based upon where they work, or where the jobs they want are. Commute time is in my opinion the most significant quality of life factor here.
I was just commenting that you wouldn't normally hear someone lamenting that they had to "settle" on North Arlington over Vienna.
Agreed. And with vice versa as well. These are two of at least a dozen prime residential areas in the NoVa suburbs, each of which provides a great deal, varying only in which factors they individually happen to support best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyField
In the end, my view has always been that newcomers should choose where to live in NoVA based upon where they work, or where the jobs they want are. Commute time is in my opinion the most significant quality of life factor here.
Well, you have to be able to afford the house, and it has to meet the minimum standards for your family size and condition (young kids, elderly live-in parents, etc.). After that, there isn't much that comes in ahead of assuring that you have a reasonable commute. Move that down to 6th or something, and you may very well end up hating your life here.
Maybe for people working in Arlington or DC. For the rest of us... commute to the major employment centers - Tysons Corner, Reston, Herndon, Dulles, Fairfax, Merrifield is so much better from Vienna...
And Madison High is better than Yorktown High...
So - it depends.
Really? The cheapest newer (last 10 years) 5bd houses with 5000 sq ft or more:
Vienna 2013 LORD FAIRFAX Rd, VIENNA, VA 22182 | MLS# FX7584669
(and it's not even Vienna, more like Dull Loring - with Marshall High)
2001, SQ. FT.:5,103, $988,500
Seems to me North Arlington is comparable to cheaper (Marshall High) corners of Vienna, but not quite up to the Madison High part.
North Arlington generally is more expensive than Vienna. So in that sense it's basically a tautology to say that it's more "desirable" than Vienna, and there's no need to get agitated over Sally Field's comment.
If you want to start a "North Arlington vs. Vienna" debate, though, get your facts straight:
- Most people would consider Yorktown HS every bit the equal of Madison HS (i.e., Yorktown has higher SAT scores, a brand new building, and smaller average class sizes than Madison).
- You can't really make general conclusions about the relative cost of homes in three locations based merely on three data points. In general, North Arlington is more expensive than Vienna - whether one is discussing the Town (22180) or the surrounding county neighborhoods in 22181 or 22182.
- Many Vienna neighborhoods that feed into Marshall HS (particularly from the 22182 zip code) are every bit as expensive, if not more so, than the neighborhoods in the Town of Vienna and the 22182 zip codes that feed into Madison HS. The least expensive neighborhood in Vienna that feeds into Marshall is Dunn Loring Woods, which is similar in terms of price to the Vienna Woods neighborhood in the Town of Vienna that feeds into Madison.
- Commuting to DC, other parts of Arlington, and even parts of the Tysons area from North Arlington is generally easier than commuting to those places from Vienna (particularly the neighborhoods closer to Oakton). It's not necessarily an "unrealistic upper middle-class" aspiration to seek to reduce one's commuting time by living in an area with less traffic congestion than you find in Vienna. The flip side of that traffic congestion is that there are many family-friendly things available along a relatively compact stretch of Maple Avenue (and Church Street).
Both Vienna and North Arlington are extremely nice areas with a lot to offer. I lived in Vienna for 15 years, found it full of generally nice people, and miss parts of it greatly, but two things I don't miss at all are (1) the traffic congestion on Routes 123 and 7 (and, yes, I knew and made liberal use of other roads); and (2) the subset of insufferable Vienna residents who put Madison HS on a pedestal that it doesn't really quite warrant. I've not encountered any other group of residents in the area - even those who live in the Langley HS district - who feel the need to brag so frequently about a local neighborhood high school. Our friends who have kids there are happy with some aspects of the school, and less so with others. That's precisely how others tend to feel about their kids' schools as well.
and (2) the not insignificant number of insufferable Vienna residents, who put Madison HS on a pedestal that it doesn't really quite warrant.
LOL. We all like to praise community support for and involvement in our local schools, but there IS such a thing as taking it too far. :-) That said, naked boosterism isn't really limited to JMHS parents. I've a neighbor whose two girls went through the Madeira School, for instance. And I'd bet you could find a few Cardinal Hill or even Tuckahoe members who would be happy to diss more than just the hamburgers at Vienna Woods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
I'm not aware of any other set of residents in the area - even those who live in the Langley HS district - who feel the need to brag so frequently about a local neighborhood high school. Our friends who have kids there are happy with some aspects of the school, and less so with others.
Your friends must be realists. Madison is a very good school. It's not now and never has been perfect. Shocking news to some...
LOL. We all like to praise community support for and involvement in our local schools, but there IS such a thing as taking it too far. :-) That said, naked boosterism isn't really limited to JMHS parents. I've a neighbor whose two girls went through the Madeira School, for instance. And I'd bet you could find a few Cardinal Hill or even Tuckahoe members who would be happy to diss more than just the hamburgers at Vienna Woods.
Your friends must be realists. Madison is a very good school. It's not now and never has been perfect. Shocking news to some...
Viewed charitably, the boosterism of Madison HS by some Vienna residents is probably a reflection of the fact that it effectively serves as the "town HS" for the Town of Vienna (even though it draws from county neighborhoods as well), which may produce a certain amount of extra, "small-town" pride that you don't always find in other parts of larger Fairfax County. I'll save the less charitable interpretation for another occasion.
Yes, our friends are realists. That's one reason why they are our friends.
I'm not slamming Vienna! Of course, Vienna is nice. Of course, some people would favor Vienna over North Arlington because of differing commutes. But surely it is fair to say that North Arlington is generally regarded as more "posh." And the data supports it -- a few homes notwithstanding, take a broader look at 22181 (or whatever Vienna ZIP) compared to 22207. The information is here on City-Data. I don't live in North Arlington, so I'm not saying this with any personal bias.
Median sale price in 22182 (part or Vienna similar to 22207 in types of housing, 22181 has too many condos near metro) was $750K in May'11, in 22207 it was $760K. Pretty much the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SallyField
In the end, my view has always been that newcomers should choose where to live in NoVA based upon where they work, or where the jobs they want are. Commute time is in my opinion the most significant quality of life factor here.
- Most people would consider Yorktown HS every bit the equal of Madison HS (i.e., Yorktown has higher SAT scores, a brand new building, and smaller average class sizes than Madison).
Madison has better test results.
Algebra II 98% vs 94%
English: Reading 99% vs 95%
Biology 97% vs 94%
English: Writing 99% vs 97%
Virginia and United States History 100% vs 98%
Chemistry 97% vs 95%
Earth Science 93% vs 90%
Madison has also better demographics socioeconomically (6% FRL vs 14%), which means safer environment (less hoodlums) statistically, whether you like it or not.
I'm not saying Madison is perfect (or even the best around - this honor goes to TJ without question, and there are some other schools as good or better as Madison) or Yorktown is terrible (it's perfectly OK, just like Marshall). Things above just mean more for me than the newer building.
Madison has better test results.
Algebra II 98% vs 94%
English: Reading 99% vs 95%
Biology 97% vs 94%
English: Writing 99% vs 97%
Virginia and United States History 100% vs 98%
Chemistry 97% vs 95%
Earth Science 93% vs 90%
Madison has also better demographics socioeconomically (6% FRL vs 14%), which means safer environment (less hoodlums) statistically, whether you like it or not.
I'm not saying Madison is perfect (or even the best around - this honor goes to TJ without question, and there are some other schools as good or better as Madison) or Yorktown is terrible (it's perfectly OK, just like Marshall). Things above just mean more for me than the newer building.
If you checked the SAT scores, you'd find Yorktown's are higher than Madison's. I'd tend to think they are probably more relevant to most parents of college-bound students than scores on basic competency tests like SOLs.
But each to his own. I personally think that suggesting that there's a meaningful, practical distinction between one high-performing school with 6% FRL students and another one with 14% FRL students, but your life's experiences are undoubtedly different from mine and you've expressed your views in prior threads.
I will say that, when we lived in Vienna, it was generally not the people we knew who had high-paying jobs who ascribed a lot of significance to the demographic distinctions between Madison HS and Marshall HS (which is about 18% FRL, as I recall). It was usually people who were less confident in their parenting skills, or who could barely afford to live in Vienna, for whom living in a high school district with low ESOL/FLR percentages seemed to provide some type of validation or security blanket. Indeed, some of those parents were furious when some of our other friends with children at Madison demanded a public forum to express concerns that the administration was not taking sufficient steps to monitor drug use on the school's premises; the former did not want to hear anything that called the school's image into question.
- Commuting to DC, other parts of Arlington, and even parts of the Tysons area from North Arlington is generally easier than commuting to those places from Vienna
Agree about Arlington and DC (as I said before), but Tyson's??
This house in Vienna 101 SARATOGA WAYE NORTHEAST, VIENNA, VA 22180 | MLS# FX7156411
is the closest one to the Tyson's, you can literally WALK to the dead center of Tyson's Corner (the original Tyson's Corner on the intersection of 7 and 123) in about 5 minutes. There is no place in Arlington even remotely comparable to that. Again, you can find a side of Vienna - next to Oakton and Vienna metro - where commute to Tyson's will be comparable to closest parts of Arligton. But it is not "general" at all. From most of "Vienna" addresses commute to Tyson's takes just minutes, through 267, 7, Old Courthouse, Woodford, Cedar/Gallows and yes, 123 too. Sheesh, half of Tysons itself has Vienna address.
Even 66/495 from Vienna metro is about the same as 66/267 or 66/7 from Arlington. And you can take a bus.
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