Occupy the Greenway? (Leesburg, Fairfax, Tysons Corner: 2014, credit, school)

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by saganista

VDOT has been working on Route 28 for ten years. If it's all 8 lanes the next time you check, perhaps they are done. Route 7 in the vicinity of Fairfax County Parkway is in the process of becoming six lanes. Every improvement to these corridors gives drivers another reason to shun the tolls on the Greenway.

What does "in the process" mean? Are you talking about vague plans for sometime in the future or are you saying there's construction going on at Rt. 7 & Fairfax County Parkway? I live 2 miles from that intersection and am not aware of any construction. Even if it was taking place how would that affect a road that's 15 miles away and travels to completely different parts of the county? Look at a map to see just how far south Greenway is from Rt. 7--yes, you can drive Rt. 7 and eventually get to the same locations, but to do so you'd also have to exit 7 and drive through a long stretch of Ashburn (and if you've ever driven in Ashburn you know that can be quite time consuming).

Same goes for Rt 28--it goes in a different direction and services a different part of the county. 28 is a north/south road and intersects the Greenway. Widening 28 actually feeds more traffic into the Greenway.

In addition, the appeal of the Greenway is that it's significantly less congested than the public roads. Widening an individual intersection of Rt. 7 wouldn't entice the Greenway customer because bottlenecks would still happen just as soon as the road return to a section that narrows. I drive Rt. 7 myself and don't mind it, but the idea that it will ever become an uncongested road is laughable.

Originally Posted by saganista

Growth isn't enough for the Greenway to survive. They need that old style, pre-2007 growth to come back.

Apparently the people who bought it have a different opinion. In 25 years we can all get together and see who was right.

Originally Posted by saganista

Please. The purpose of Phase-2 is to move commuters from eastern Loudoun and western Fairfax into Tysons Corner, Arlington, and on into downtown DC. That is exactly the population that the Greenway tries to serve. Its traffic will take a major hit the day that Phase-2 opens.

Look at a map, they don't serve the same population at all. It's possible you may be confusing Greenway with 267. Greenway does not move commuters from eastern Loudoun and western Fairfax to Tyson's corner--it extends from Dulles Airport to Leesburg. Exit 6 of the Greenway intersects with the westernmost terminus of the Silver Line. Therefore, riders from western Loudoun will take the train, and then take the Greenway west. I think the silver line will increase (not decrease) the number of cars on Greenway, since the only other road heading west from the Ashburn station is Route 643 and that's another road that can have congestion problems.

[stpickrell]

From the Greenway web page:
Overview | Dulles Greenway

"You only need to make 180 trips in a 12-month period on the Greenway to qualify for a 5% (of toll expense) bonus check."

There are six traffic lights along Route 7 between the Loudoun/Clarke line and Route 28:
Sycolin - included in this year's transportation plan
Cardinal Park
Battlefield
Belmont Ridge - included in this year's transportation plan
Lexington
Ashburn Village - I think OneLoudoun will pay for this

So in five years, three of these interchanges will be removed. They're all gone along 28 between 7 and 267.

So -- it might take 8-15 minutes longer to take 7-28 instead of 267 for a hypothetical Leesburg commuter. I don't think most people will pay $4 to save 10 minutes.

As for Metro, if they get the Waxpool/LCP interchange going, the Greenway will save maybe 6-8 minutes.

[cdmurphy]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Look at a map, they don't serve the same population at all. It's possible you may be confusing Greenway with 267. Greenway does not move commuters from eastern Loudoun and western Fairfax to Tyson's corner--it extends from Dulles Airport to Leesburg. Exit 6 of the Greenway intersects with the westernmost terminus of the Silver Line. Therefore, riders from western Loudoun will take the train, and then take the Greenway west. I think the silver line will increase (not decrease) the number of cars on Greenway, since the only other road heading west from the Ashburn station is Route 643 and that's another road that can have congestion problems.

I think what Saganista means (correct me if I'm wrong, Saganista) is that people in eastern Loudoun (like Brambleton) who use the Greenway to get to the Dulles Toll Road are going to be using the Silver Line instead when it expands out here.

There is already a pretty good "parallel" alternative to the Greenway for people who get on at the start in Leesburg -- Sycolin Road. Right now there's no reason for Greenway->DTR users to use Sycolin, since they pay the same amount if they get on at Route 15 or at Belmont Ridge. But when the Silver Line is complete, who's going to pay $4+ (or whatever it costs in 2017) to drive to Rt. 772 if they can do 55 MPH on Sycolin (and then zigzag a little bit through Broadlands) to get to the Metro?

[oneasterisk]

Is Sycolin fully paved? I don't really drive through the area much, but I remember the name of that road. About 7 years ago my GPS took me on that road and there were stretches were it went to gravel and then back to pavement. I always though it was kind of funny, like they ran out of money and couldn't pave the whole stretch

[cdmurphy]

Originally Posted by oneasterisk

Is Sycolin fully paved? I don't really drive through the area much, but I remember the name of that road. About 7 years ago my GPS took me on that road and there were stretches were it went to gravel and then back to pavement. I always though it was kind of funny, like they ran out of money and couldn't pave the whole stretch

Yep, it's been paved for a year or two now. I usually take it or Evergreen Mills Rd. to get to Leesburg.

[Caladium]

Every time I've drive Sycolin Road it's been crowded. To be fair, I've only driven the section closest to the bypass, so maybe it improves as it continues. Also, it's kind of an accident prone street. A few years ago the intersection of Sycolin and the Bypass was the #1 spot for accidents in Loudoun (although the intersection of Waxpool Road at Loudoun County Parkway has now taken that dubious honor).

Just for the sake of disclosure, by the way, I do agree with the posters who would rather not pay the toll. I'm cheap. Plus, my schedule isn't tight so I don't really care if my drive is a little longer, and I can deal with congested roads.

At the same time, I think there are are plenty of other people who do think the Greenway is worth it. So I guess it all comes down to opinion--do you think enough people will think it's worth the toll or not? Some may think so, others do not, and time will tell if the owners made a smart investment or not. If not, the road will either close or Loudoun can buy it for less than it would cost to build a road. Meanwhile, none of this means the owners have done anything to deserve being called fraudulent.

In the meantime I still don't understand what the resentment is about. Oh excuse me, I mean "the need to be critical" since the explanation the previous time I asked this was simply a side step of "I'm not resentful." Is anyone harmed by the existence of this road? As far as I can see, it isn't hurting anyone, it eases traffic on the public roads, and some people like it. So what's the beef?

[United_Caps_Skins_Fan]

Sitting on Rt 7 between say Sterling and Leesburg, esp during any sort of traffic / rush hour is a fairly painful experience. Its bad traffic. I don't think I have much of an issue for paying for a route that takes 30-60 minutes off of my time. That stretch of 7 is almost as bad as Tysons at times.

Sometimes if I don't have to take it and I'm not in a hurry I will take back country roads. Granted that is a bit easier to do if coming from the south over towards Dulles, but it is an alternative to paying.

I really wish VDOT would get on the ball and realise that the light on 7, at the at grade crossing of Sycolin is becoming a major issue. That is not going to get any better either, only worse. It is time for an overpass / interchange there. I have heard some rumblings about it, but I hope that happens sooner rather than later.

Originally Posted by Caladium

Is anyone harmed by the existence of this road?

Well...... Turtles, and maybe some deer, foxes...etc. If anyone was to stage an "occupy the greenway" it should be them, but I doubt they would all be removed peacefully. In stead they would probably be removed as pancakes.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

I love the 267. Or I did when I lived in Loudoun County. It took a lot of time off my commute when I used to work on K Street and then later in Clarendon. I wish I had known about the rebate program earlier. I did start taking advantage of it at one point -- with both my wife and I making the roundtrip each day, we racked up quite a few dollars in rebates. I received 5% and was not even aware that I could get up to 15% until I read this thread.

When I first moved to this area, I refused to take toll road because I thought it was expensive. And then I realized that my time was waaaay more valuable than the few dollars I spent on it. I chalked it up to the cost of living farther out than most of my colleagues whose homes were more expensive because they were closer-in.

I don't know whether Saganista's prediction that it will fail will come true. Projecting 20-30 years is ultimately futile. His prediction could come true exactly as he put it. Or there could be a great deal of population growth beyond Ashburn while the Phase 2 of the Metro is delayed or even canceled, thus increasing the volume on 267. Or maybe one of these days it could go "pay for distance" and have a much higher volume (if lower per car) of traffic.

I find the whole "Occupy..." movement silly, but whatever merits of the other "Occupy..." things, "Occupy the Greenway" would be sillier still.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by United_Caps_Skins_Fan

Well...... Turtles, and maybe some deer, foxes...etc. If anyone was to stage an "occupy the greenway" it should be them, but I doubt they would all be removed peacefully. In stead they would probably be removed as pancakes.

OK, this gets my vote for funniest post of the day.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by Caladium

OK, this gets my vote for funniest post of the day.

Or maybe that rent-a-cop who sprayed the college protesters is in a wrong profession. Maybe he should be an animal control officer.