phase 2 of the silver line metro to ashburn. Yay or nay? (Richmond: gated, taxis)

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by United_Caps_Skins_Fan

Are they really not putting any commuter parking at the end of the line? That seems crazy to me. SO what, everyone is going to walk from Brambleton, Broadlands and Ashburn to the metro? In case they have not noticed, those areas are not exactly what one would call "walking neighborhoods".

Oh lord

Yes they are putting lots of parking lots at the end of the system, just not at the airport. They dont want people parking at the airport for daily commute, they have that parking for the airport users.

There will be a parking space in Loudoun if that is a station that is built, otherwise, you'll have to drive to the next station after Dulles.

[United_Caps_Skins_Fan]

Originally Posted by mdcrim

Traffic leaving Ashburn ALREADY backs up forever. Trying to get out Waxpool to 28 to the Toll Road can take upwards of 30 minutes during the morning rush. It's insane and the reason I've stopped recommending Ashburn as a place to live.

Ashburn has never been a place I would recommend to anyone. Ever. Watching what has been done to it over the last 30 years is grotesque. It is a place that is over priced, and in my opnion, ugly, and I would never consider living there. If others like it, well that's good for them, but that does not mean I have to. About the only thing I like about Farmwell / Ashburn, is the history / legend behind how it got its name.

Originally Posted by dkf747

This reminds me of all the people who say they live in Alexandria, when they actually live in Fairfax County We could add in all of the other confusing areas like Fairfax, for example, if we wanted. The point is, the post office does not get to decide where boundaries lie. That's up to the local community to decide. The name Ashburn just means that is the post office that serves that area, it does not mean that that area is actually Ashburn. You're right that there are no official boundaries, but when, or if, there are boundaries set up, it's unlikely that they will match the current ZIP code boundaries.

That is exactly my point. It is funny that that person you were responding to actually thought for a second I wasn't calm though. LOL! I offered some examples of places, while not being in a place, have said places address, but noooo.... Well whatever. They can believe what they like and so can I. Btw, I used to live in old town (Del Ray) Alexandria for many years, and never considered those that lived in the FFX co portion to be in nor from Alexandria.

Originally Posted by dkf747

It's "stupid" to keep sprawling the Metro area further and further out. Who cares if you go to DC or not? It's not all about you. The Metro was built as commuter rail for Washington DC. The Silver Line was sold as rail to Dulles airport. That means Washington Dulles airport to Washington DC. The Loudon portion was tacked on to make it easier to sprawl out to Loudon County, and to make it easier to commute to Tysons Corner. That may be nice for you and all of the others who are stretching the sprawl out further and further, but quite a few others do not like it. That's my opinion. It's probably going to be built anyways, though, but that doesn't stop me from liking that people Loudoun County might not want to pay for it.

Many in Loudoun do not want to pay for it. That sentiment is quite clear, especially once you get past Leesburg. There are anti metro signs all over the place out here. I'm all for mass transit, but I'm not sure I fully agree with Loudoun having to pay for most of it and putting on the backs of taxpayers who will likely hardly ever use it. This is where the county split comes in, at least to some degree. People in Western Loudoun are tired of paying tax increases for all of the "big ideas" that the people of eastern Loudoun want.

The Federal Govt should be kicking in most of this cost, especially since the line is to D.C.'s international airport. So what if Loudoun does not want to pay for its part? Then don't build the 2 extra stations beyond the airport then, and include the cost of the section to the airport in phase I and leave Loudoun out of it. I'm sure many tax payers here would have no problem with that.

[United_Caps_Skins_Fan]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Oh lord

Yes they are putting lots of parking lots at the end of the system, just not at the airport. They dont want people parking at the airport for daily commute, they have that parking for the airport users.

There will be a parking space in Loudoun if that is a station that is built, otherwise, you'll have to drive to the next station after Dulles.

Hey I was just asking, I'm not the one who posted that there would be no lots. But thanks for the answer (even if it was a bit snide) anyhow.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by United_Caps_Skins_Fan

Hey I was just asking, I'm not the one who posted that there would be no lots. But thanks for the answer (even if it was a bit snide) anyhow.

Sorry, but I am a fan of an educated discussion. If you don't know what is even being proposed for the project, but have posted almost a dozen times on this thread, I think you are helping spread mis-information. There are almost 100 different websites that discuss the scope, benefits, and detriments of the silver line.

I simply suggest that if anyone wants to discuss something that they atleast read up on it. I apologize for being curt.

[sonnymarkjiz]

@unitedcaps, I wasn't getting mad at all... But you making up boundaries that don't exist to anyone else in the world just made me chuckle.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by United_Caps_Skins_Fan

The Federal Govt should be kicking in most of this cost, especially since the line is to D.C.'s international airport. So what if Loudoun does not want to pay for its part? Then don't build the 2 extra stations beyond the airport then, and include the cost of the section to the airport in phase I and leave Loudoun out of it. I'm sure many tax payers here would have no problem with that.

The federal govt is kicking in a lot of the funds, under the FTA New Starts program. metro DC does not get a special bonus in new starts because its the capital, AFAIK (there are lots of other cities with federal offices, and its not clear that giving Dulles a leg up on BWI and National is as important to the federal govt as it is to to MWAA, Fairfax, and, yes, Loudoun) There are also local and state funds (and the state has options that allow it to use some of its federal highway money for transit). The commonwealth is putting some money in, some money is coming from Tysons landowners, some from MWAA (which means tolls) and some from the counties. Ultimately it will be the counties that get the property tax revenues from new development near the stations. How much thats worth is something each county must decide.

If Loudoun drops out the herndon, rte 28 and Dulles stations will NOT become part of phase 1. Phase one is well underway and will be completed some time in 2013. They will be phase 2. Even without Loudoun stations, that will be phase 2. Since "phase" refers to the sequencing of planning and construciton in time, and not to the jurisdiction.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by dkf747

It's "stupid" to keep sprawling the Metro area further and further out. Who cares if you go to DC or not? It's not all about you. The Metro was built as commuter rail for Washington DC. The Silver Line was sold as rail to Dulles airport. That means Washington Dulles airport to Washington DC. The Loudon portion was tacked on to make it easier to sprawl out to Loudon County, and to make it easier to commute to Tysons Corner. That may be nice for you and all of the others who are stretching the sprawl out further and further, but quite a few others do not like it. That's my opinion. It's probably going to be built anyways, though, but that doesn't stop me from liking that people Loudon County might not want to pay for it.

The problem is, Tysons gets lots of Loudoun commuters as it is. While much of the new development in Tysons will be residential, the new Tysons plans envisions significant job growth there as well. Its likely many of them will be from Loudoun whatever we do (assuming Loudoun does not completely clamp down on residential growth, which seems vanishingly unlikely) So, if we don't get the Loudoun stations what do we get? More LoCo commuters continuing to commute to Tysons by car, setting back the transformation of Tysons from a autocentric center to a more urban one? Loco commuters accessing Tysons by some from of transit (auto or bus to rte 28 or Herndon metro stations, or all the way to Tysons by commuter bus) instead? Or fewer Tysons employees locating in LoCo, and more in Fairfax? Or some combination of the three? In what ratios?

I don't think the decision is obvious either way. I could imagine both a build case, and a no build case, that would make it easier. If LoCo were adding not just limited TOD near the stations, but as part of the build case a complete transformation to a neo urbanist suburb (though its already rather late for that frankly) that might make the pro case stronger - and if in the no build case, Loudoun was really going to restrict growth, not just west of rte 15, but all new growth, that would change the regional impact of no build. But neither of those has any real chance of taking place, AFAIK. We have to deal with what will realistically exist.

[SPHokie]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Oh lord

Yes they are putting lots of parking lots at the end of the system, just not at the airport. They dont want people parking at the airport for daily commute, they have that parking for the airport users.

There will be a parking space in Loudoun if that is a station that is built, otherwise, you'll have to drive to the next station after Dulles.

Right. But the point was if they built garages at the airport station then the Loudoun stations would not be necessary.

[tysonsengineer]

People, the MWAA, which runs the airport, and frankly the TSA does not want a bunch of commuters parking on the airport property. It increases chances for security breaches. Either Loudoun wants to use metro and will add a station with a parking lot, or MWAA will be pissed as hell at Loudoun and prolly specifically make it difficult for Loudouners to get to their stations by placing them along the toll road as much as possible. Floris is the gift that MWAA is currently giving to Loudoun because it will allow ashburn residents to not have to pay for the greenway/tollroad to park. I wouldnt be shocked if Loudoun pulls out if MWAA says f it and doesn't build floris. Why should they? Chantilly/Herndon/Reston would all be accessing other stations and parking areas.

Why would they say, oh ok, dont help us build this, but here is a defacto station that is just as close that will be just as easy for you.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you want to use metro then help pay for it, otherwise don't complain if its tough to get to a parking lot to use it.

[sonnymarkjiz]

I can see them building them at 28, but at the airport is a retarded idea. People don't use the metro "just" for work. That would kill airport parking and traffic all the time.

Can you imagine a redskins game and everyone from loudoun cramming onto the dulles airport station? Sheesh.