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Sorry, but I am a fan of an educated discussion. If you don't know what is even being proposed for the project, but have posted almost a dozen times on this thread, I think you are helping spread mis-information. There are almost 100 different websites that discuss the scope, benefits, and detriments of the silver line.
I simply suggest that if anyone wants to discuss something that they atleast read up on it. I apologize for being curt.
As am I. I think you just like being a bit nasty towards me? (reference to your comment that apparently I'm not "educated".) I'm NOT the one that posted there are not going to be any lots at the stations beyond dulles, that was another poster that I simply responded to. Perhaps you should go back and read the entire thread before you decide to get snarky with me. (or anyone else). You jump on me, and apologise to me all in the same post. Hmmm. Well, thanks.
And I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to brows 100 sites. I often don't have tons of time to even come here, hence why I have been absent from posting here for months. Anyway, Hope you have a good day and enjoy this awesome weather.
Last edited by United_Caps_Skins_Fan; 03-14-2012 at 09:18 AM..
The federal govt is kicking in a lot of the funds, under the FTA New Starts program. metro DC does not get a special bonus in new starts because its the capital, AFAIK (there are lots of other cities with federal offices, and its not clear that giving Dulles a leg up on BWI and National is as important to the federal govt as it is to to MWAA, Fairfax, and, yes, Loudoun) There are also local and state funds (and the state has options that allow it to use some of its federal highway money for transit). The commonwealth is putting some money in, some money is coming from Tysons landowners, some from MWAA (which means tolls) and some from the counties. Ultimately it will be the counties that get the property tax revenues from new development near the stations. How much thats worth is something each county must decide.
If Loudoun drops out the herndon, rte 28 and Dulles stations will NOT become part of phase 1. Phase one is well underway and will be completed some time in 2013. They will be phase 2. Even without Loudoun stations, that will be phase 2. Since "phase" refers to the sequencing of planning and construciton in time, and not to the jurisdiction.
I understand that. I know that they will still be phase two with or without the additional stations. I was merely just stating my opinion about the costs. I don't have all the time in the world to go and read the thousands of articles and such about this. I know its coming, and I know many are opposed to it because of the new taxes it will apparently bring. I probably won't use it much since I do not commute into Washington, or even Reston or Tysons. , But thank you for the info. Thats part of the reason I like coming here is there is plenty of good stuff here!
People, the MWAA, which runs the airport, and frankly the TSA does not want a bunch of commuters parking on the airport property. It increases chances for security breaches. Either Loudoun wants to use metro and will add a station with a parking lot, or MWAA will be pissed as hell at Loudoun and prolly specifically make it difficult for Loudouners to get to their stations by placing them along the toll road as much as possible. Floris is the gift that MWAA is currently giving to Loudoun because it will allow ashburn residents to not have to pay for the greenway/tollroad to park. I wouldnt be shocked if Loudoun pulls out if MWAA says f it and doesn't build floris. Why should they? Chantilly/Herndon/Reston would all be accessing other stations and parking areas.
Why would they say, oh ok, dont help us build this, but here is a defacto station that is just as close that will be just as easy for you.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you want to use metro then help pay for it, otherwise don't complain if its tough to get to a parking lot to use it.
For the record, I'm NOT a fan of having commuter lots only at Dulles. That idea is silly to me. I was asking the question earlier in the thread (and apparently I'm not "educated" because I asked it) because someone ELSE posted something about that.
If I'm going to use the metro from out here, (which admittedly will not be much for me personally) then I don't want to drive to Dulles, or in further just to park to use it. If that were going to be the case, then just stop the line at Dulles Airport and be done with it, as not having commuter lots at the stations past Dulles makes zero sense and will be of little to no use to fair number of commuters.
The problem is, Tysons gets lots of Loudoun commuters as it is. While much of the new development in Tysons will be residential, the new Tysons plans envisions significant job growth there as well. Its likely many of them will be from Loudoun whatever we do (assuming Loudoun does not completely clamp down on residential growth, which seems vanishingly unlikely) So, if we don't get the Loudoun stations what do we get? More LoCo commuters continuing to commute to Tysons by car, setting back the transformation of Tysons from a autocentric center to a more urban one? Loco commuters accessing Tysons by some from of transit (auto or bus to rte 28 or Herndon metro stations, or all the way to Tysons by commuter bus) instead? Or fewer Tysons employees locating in LoCo, and more in Fairfax? Or some combination of the three? In what ratios?
I don't think the decision is obvious either way. I could imagine both a build case, and a no build case, that would make it easier. If LoCo were adding not just limited TOD near the stations, but as part of the build case a complete transformation to a neo urbanist suburb (though its already rather late for that frankly) that might make the pro case stronger - and if in the no build case, Loudoun was really going to restrict growth, not just west of rte 15, but all new growth, that would change the regional impact of no build. But neither of those has any real chance of taking place, AFAIK. We have to deal with what will realistically exist.
All very great and valid points. The only thing I could add to that, is that IF that massive, and VERY MUCH unwanted development encroaches past 15 (on the west side) then you will likely see some pretty severe backlash from the geographically larger western Loudoun. This was in whole or part the whole movement for the formation of Catoctin County. While that movement has been tempered, I'm pretty sure its still there. I cant tell you how many times and how many conversations I have had with people out here who cant stand eastern Loudoun and what it has become, with the exception of the older part of downtown Leesburg. People out here DO NOT want that kind of sprawl. Fortunately I don't think were quite there yet. There is still a fair amount of land on the east side of 15 that is open for development.
Many people that I know here that work in Tysons use the LC Transit "wifi" buses", and even more still use the LC Transit regular buses into DC / Rosslyn. I'm sure there are far more that still drive though as evidenced by the traffic on 7 and 9 in western Loudoun. There are also LOTS of West Virginia people that commute into those areas as well. At least 1/3rd of the cars at the bus lot in Harmony have WV plates, when I have bothered to look, but a far higher percentage of the plates of those traveling along 7, and especially from WV. Would they use the metro once its open? Probably.
the TSA does not want a bunch of commuters parking on the airport property. It increases chances for security breaches
How so ? There are already short and long term parking in Dulles already. May be they do not want parking there so people will not have excuse to use access road.
I think a greater priority should be placed on extending the Orange Line past Vienna. There are 3 metro stops that have been (and still are) on all the transportation plans long before the Silver Line was in planning - Fair Oaks, Stringfellow Road, Centreville West. Why run the Silver Line into empty undeveloped fields in Loudoun right now?
How so ? There are already short and long term parking in Dulles already. May be they do not want parking there so people will not have excuse to use access road.
BTW, Love your website. Very informative.
Oh thanks for the kind words. Its an issue of increased risk. Sure people park there now, but there is extensive surveillance beyond those of a typical parking lot all over those garages and surface lots. Additionally, for every X square feet of parking garage they need to hire additional security personnel to watch over the operations.
Alot of people might not know how expensive CCTV and TSS systems can be, but I can assure you the existence of these elements are not something that is decided upon easily. I am sure they would prefer to simply keeping the parking garages away from the airport as far as possible (not that side of route 28) in order to assure they wont need those systems. Additionally, those parking garages cost upwards of 8-15 dollars per day depending on the lot, far greater than metro garages. Lastly, by shuffling 5000 people through the dulles road system and onto the loop you create a traffic situation that will impede the current airport operations for kiss and ride, taxis, and actual airport parking. This is something I am sure MWAA does not wish to incur.
I think a greater priority should be placed on extending the Orange Line past Vienna. There are 3 metro stops that have been (and still are) on all the transportation plans long before the Silver Line was in planning - Fair Oaks, Stringfellow Road, Centreville West. Why run the Silver Line into empty undeveloped fields in Loudoun right now?
Thats fine, the problem is that MWAA has no interest in that corridor, because it has nothing to do with them whether centreville has metro access. Why? Because it reduces traffic on 66, which will reduce the toll payments they will get on 267, as well as helping in no way with the airport.
Due to this lack of angel investment funding in the infrastructure, the 1.5 billion would have to actually be covered by WMATA, Federal, and State funding. Seeing as getting just 150 million dollars out of the cold dead hands of our overlord in Richmond, as well as the current cut all funding of transit mindset in Washington, it is just not possible to do this expansion.
I TOTALLY agree though, if you want traffic relief in Fairfax, then I-66 is a much more important corridor to have metro extended through. Unfortunately, doing so has no tax revenue benefit due to the lack of commercial interest along this corridor outside of Fairlakes region (which in of itself is not enough incentive).
I understand that. I know that they will still be phase two with or without the additional stations. I was merely just stating my opinion about the costs. I don't have all the time in the world to go and read the thousands of articles and such about this. I know its coming, and I know many are opposed to it because of the new taxes it will apparently bring. I probably won't use it much since I do not commute into Washington, or even Reston or Tysons. , But thank you for the info. Thats part of the reason I like coming here is there is plenty of good stuff here!
you dont really need to read a thousand articles. Im pretty sure the basics could be found in one. Of course this a good place to ask questions, but if one is going to ask questions without doing any research, even for perfectly good reasons, I think a certain amount of humility is called for. I too find it annoying when someone makes an argumentative point while not knowing the basic facts of a situation. Im sure I have been guilty of that too, but I try not to do that.
Thats fine, the problem is that MWAA has no interest in that corridor, because it has nothing to do with them whether centreville has metro access. Why? Because it reduces traffic on 66, which will reduce the toll payments they will get on 267, as well as helping in no way with the airport.
Due to this lack of angel investment funding in the infrastructure, the 1.5 billion would have to actually be covered by WMATA, Federal, and State funding. Seeing as getting just 150 million dollars out of the cold dead hands of our overlord in Richmond, as well as the current cut all funding of transit mindset in Washington, it is just not possible to do this expansion.
I TOTALLY agree though, if you want traffic relief in Fairfax, then I-66 is a much more important corridor to have metro extended through. Unfortunately, doing so has no tax revenue benefit due to the lack of commercial interest along this corridor outside of Fairlakes region (which in of itself is not enough incentive).
Yeah, I know. But it still needs to be pointed out.
Last edited by newgatedenizen; 03-14-2012 at 02:08 PM..
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I66 Metro Extension First
